3 replies to this topic

[Z_mann]

http://www.mercuryne...and/ci_19306598

http://www.theglobea...article2232146/

Even here in Belgrade. At the beginning of the semester, dissatisfied students have decided to form a plenary chamber and have put a blockade on one of the University buildings (since this is a city university, there is no campus, and the faculties are all over the place). The blockade lasted for 21 days and has been lifted yesterday. Thankfully, there was no crackdown such as in Berkley.

I would go on about it but it is a local issue, so I'm not sure there is interest.

But what I WANT us to discuss is whether the education system, as it is implemented today in most western nations (and partially here in little Serbia) is sound. Does it produce quality education, does it indeed lead to debt slavery. Also, I'd like to hear opinion from students (and graduates) worldwide about their respective universities: how are they organized, financed, what's the cost of the average student standard (books, campus, library access, food).

I'm trying to write an article for a local paper, so you'll be helping me as well.

[Alias]

From what I've heard from around the world, I think the system here tends to be one of the better versions.
Higher education is subsidised, but not free. It was free until around the 70's when universal healthcare came into the equation.

Along with the subsidies, the government provides interest free loans to all students (or for those studying at private universities, a loan with a small loading placed on top) which are automatically paid back through the tax system and have no payment deadline. You do not start paying the loan back until you earn around (at the moment, at least) $45000 AUD per annum. I think this system tends to work pretty well as it gives everyone equal ability to pay when it comes the time, so a genius scientist can be born from either a poor person whose family has been on welfare all their lives to a rich kid who is just doing it because he parents are throwing money at him.

That said, however, cost of living in Australia is particularly high compared to the rest of the world, about the only place you will find things more expensive will be in Scandinavia. Quality of life comes with a price.

[Golan]

Over here in Germany, some federal states have a fee of 500€/semester for studying, but it will probably be abolished in the next two years for all students. There were some protests against the fee, though it was mainly ignored by most people, including students, professors and politicians.
Students can get a loan though it's tied to your parent's income (by law, your parents are required to pay for your education if they can afford it) and the paperwork is HELL. You can get up to 538€ per month, only half the money has to be paid back, there is an upper boundary to what you have to pay back if you graduate, and depending on your final grade and type of university, this sum is further lowered. So if you graduate, you've got pretty much nothing to worry about, if you don't...

Universities are organized drastically differently around here, my own has formed a close cooperation with a local research center, leading to it having top access to funding, equipment and scientific expertise. The library is free to use for any student of our university and provides access to both the old university and research center stock; though most books are not available in sufficient number for the number of students, you can get by without ever buying a single book. Furthermore, the university provides every student access to its network, i.e. you have full internet access etc. from either one of the many public university computers or can hook into the WLAN available on the entire campus and about several hundred meter around it (yes, they did install extra antennas for this...). There is a single mensa on both the main campus and the former research center each where students can get meals for a good price. The main problem around here is the lack of affordable living space, you either have to be lucky or ready to pay a good deal of money to a room that is anywhere close to the university (<30 min traveling time).

[Z_mann]

Urgh...

Seriously, whoever took the decision to implement the market model to our university should be, like, flogged.

I suppose I should elaborate. When I mention 'the university' by that I mean the http://www.bg.ac.rs/en_index.php University of Belgrade, which is one of like two academic institutions worthy of mention. Anyway, back in the old days of glorious socialist state things have been running a bit more smoothly on the administrative-technical side: there were no tuition payments, the University funded all its expenses through the state budget. I really can't say whether the system was good or bad since I haven't been a part of it, but it did run like clockwork (compared to now). There were problems, of course, but they were mostly not related to finance: lets just say the classes needed some reform (basically there was a large number of bi-semestral and quadri-semestral courses that were a complete and utter pain, and there really was no law about misconduct so you would have some professors that were... not nice, that would openly insult your intelligence/parentage/whatever and then fail you with no objective reason, but that's not entirely related to the issue).

So the university got 'reformed' in 2006, and it kinda went downhill fast. The idea was, since there was no money to pay the University (they couldn't pay the heating bills, so the heating would get shut down mid winter, for example) it was decided that the payment should be switched to the 'market model' and that budget quotas should be implemented - basically if you score enough ETCS* you can take the courses from the next year. If you get even more, you're eligible to be financed from the state budget. And it was fine for a year or two. Then, two things started happening. The state started raising the bar for budget scholarship (from 42 ECTS* to 60 ECTS* - that means you have to pass all courses) and then they raised even more by limiting the number of scholarships so, besides passing all courses in one year, you get ranked according to your GPA; also, the universities started raising scholarships claiming it was fair because they were on the knowledge 'market' - for example most technical faculties have lower scholarships (i thing Geological Engineering costs like 50.000 dinars, or about 500€, and in my case, in Electrical Engineering, is about 800€ per year) even though they have a higher cost of studying per student (labs cost money, equipment costs money, upkeep etc.), while Language Studies, Architecture, for example, have MUCH higher fees (to the tune of 1500€ - 2000€ per year) even though they have no extra costs. Also, all the things Golan mentioned are not free anymore. You have to pay to use the library, you have to buy books (and its illegal to make copies: I still do it though ), to use the mensa, you have to buy your own supplies, there are even little b.s. fees like having to pay to take an exam (10€), to get a list of courses in English (20€) and stuff like that. It may not seem like much, but remember that the minimum wage in this country is, like, 200€ (and that's a positive estimate) and that many Universities require you to listen to all the lectures and similar obligations on time so you are automatically unable to work and study.

tl:dr Something is very wrong here.

PS thank you for the input, I will put it to good use

*ECTS - European Credit Transfer... Something. Basically points you get for completing courses. A year of studies has 60 ECTS, an average course takes 5-7.