33 replies to this topic

[Flying Tigers]

If AK-47 was found at 1942 (WWII) what will happen?

1. The name will be AK-42
2. There won't be so many Russian dead at stalingrad
3. Russia won't need american help to kick German ASS out from Russia!
4. Russia will probably win WWII by themselves and probably 50 years later the result would be like "Freedom fighters" history intro

[Soul]

I don't get were your going with this?

[Flying Tigers]

I mean AK-47 was found by avtomat kalashnikova (I can't spell russian names) in 1947. If it's founded in 1942 when WWII starts then what will happen in the future?
Compared to any other weapons during that time including STG-44 that weapon will be like "The king of weapons"

Edited by Flying Tigers, 06 October 2006 - 16:08.

[TehKiller]

1.
2.Wouldnt change a thing since the it would be even harders for the dudes to learn from firing out of that masterpiece
3.The yanks never helped kicking nazi ass out of Russia
4.Russia wouldnt be able to do that since of the heavy losses in the war.

[Alias]

The Russian's won the war in Europe. All the American's did was got the Jap's.

[Eddy01741]

1. the only thing that is true
2. theres no difference if the troops are still conscripts anyways
3. If it wasn't for us allies, there wouldn't be a east or west germany, it would all be east germany basically
4. They already are known as freedom fighters for WWII, but since Stalin went crazy and started a nuclear arms race and the cold war as well as being known for being more cruel than Hitler, it's obvious that that kind of over shadows their recognition as a war winner.

[AllStarZ]

Would be pretty impossible because the design of the AK-47 was inspired by the Sturmgewehr, though simply the idea of an intermediate cartridge is what inspired it.

[Eddy01741]

That's kind of a rumor, as they say Kalishknov was in a hospital when he designed it.. but who knows.

[Alias]

Wikipedia said:

Sturmgewehr 44 (StG44) was not the first rifle to use these features; it was preceded by earlier Italian Cei-Rigotti and Russian Fedorov Avtomat designs. The Germans, however, were the first to produce and field a sufficient number of the type to properly evaluate its utility. They fielded the weapon in large numbers against the Russians towards the end of the war. This experience deeply influenced Russian doctrine in the years following the war.

Mikhail Kalashnikov began imagining his weapon while still in the hospital, after being wounded in the battle of Bryansk. He had been informed that a new weapon was required for the 7.62 × 41 mm cartridge developed by Elisarov and Semin in 1943. Sudayev's PPS43 submachine gun was preferred to Kalashnikov's design. Kalashnikov redesigned his losing design after examining a German StG44 in 1946. Kalashnikov was chosen to lead a team of designers possibly more for propaganda value due to his war-hero status rather than for his expertise. This would follow Soviet patterns in other industries.

[AllStarZ]

Quote

The Soviet 7.62 × 39 mm rifle cartridge was designed during World War II and first used in the SKS carbine. The cartridge was influenced by the late-war German 7.92 mm Kurz ("Kurz" meaning "short" in German). Shortly after the war the world's most recognized assault rifle was designed for this cartridge: the AK-47. The cartridge remained the standard Soviet load until the 1970s, and is still by far the most common intermediate rifle cartridge used around the world. Its replacement, the 5.45 × 39 mm cartridge, is less powerful but longer ranged (due to its much higher velocity) and is more controllable in full-auto fire (due to the lower recoil). The change was a response to the NATO switch from the 7.62 mm cartridge to 5.56 x 45 mm NATO.

No cartridge, no gun.

[TehKiller]

Eddy01741, on 7 Oct 2006, 00:41, said:

That's kind of a rumor, as they say Kalishknov was in a hospital when he designed it.. but who knows.

actually he was wounded in battle and while in the hospital he came up with the idea of a assault rifle (since he saw the firepower of a StG)

[Rayburn]

I don't see much point in this discussion BUT I'm not going to end it as long as it's kept civilized.

In my oppinion, the "AK-42" wouldn't have changed much.
Good gun or not, the chance of survival of an untrained consript against fully trained soldiers is STILL pretty low, so I highly doubt the 2nd point.

On point 3, there wasn't any American help for the Soviets and IF there was, it must have been minor.

On number 4, as it was said before, Russian casualties would still have been incredible, so a war between Russia and the Allies would have been highly unlikely. I also believe that America though it was involved in Europe AND the Pacific theatre didn't take as much damage from the whole war as Russia and Great Britain did, they would have remained the superpower.

ONE technological advantage in conventional weaponry doesn't change a war. It's often being said that the German tanks were superior to many others and that the MG42 was the best machinegun of its time. Still, the nazis lost, so one technological advantage isn't THAT much of a factor.

Edited by MDW, 07 October 2006 - 15:43.

[Flying Tigers]

The Grue, on 7 Oct 2006, 05:35, said:

The Russian's won the war in Europe. All the American's did was got the Jap's.

If I wasn't wrong the Americans pinned the krauts from the west (bostogne) and the Russia from the east??
back to topic:
Still We gotta admit that AK-47 was the cheapest, user friendly (not jammed easily), and strong (throw it to the mud, step on it and it still fires)

Isn't theres a new version called AK-101?

[BillyChaka]

That's true. The offensive in the Ardennes was Hitler's last chance to still be active in the war. 101st did good there.

[Rayburn]

Still, the opening statement was:
"Russia won't need american help to kick German ASS out from Russia!"

This has nothing to do with what the Americans (and the British aswell, everyone keeps forgetting THEM, sadly) did in Europe. They did NOT contribute to the liberation of the occupied Russian territory.

Edited by MDW, 07 October 2006 - 16:09.

[Kris]

Saw one show in Discovery, they compared the AK-47 vs the M16

First they shot a rock using the M16, the thing just put some tiny holes and marks of gun powder..

Second, They shot the rock with the AK-47, LOL the rock blew up XD

Hmmm maybe thats the reason why those vietnamese people choosed the AK, they can shot those soldiers hiding from the trees because they know the AK-47 can pierce it.

in short, for a old weapon.....AK-47 PWNS!

[TehKiller]

Flying Tigers, on 7 Oct 2006, 15:46, said:

Isn't theres a new version called AK-101?

theres like 10 different AKs....u got AK-74/101/102/103/107/108 and dont get confused between AK 47 and 74 (believe me there is a big difference between them)

[Flying Tigers]

I know there's an AK-74
There is also CZ-74 which was made by chezlosvakia or something instead from Russia
What's the newest version of AK?

[Alias]

AK-108. But it looks too modern

47's for the win!

[AllStarZ]

If I needed to equip a large army or an army for a very big and protracted war, I would issue AKs.

[Eddy01741]

TehKiller, on 7 Oct 2006, 13:22, said:

Flying Tigers, on 7 Oct 2006, 15:46, said:

Isn't theres a new version called AK-101?

theres like 10 different AKs....u got AK-74/101/102/103/107/108 and dont get confused between AK 47 and 74 (believe me there is a big difference between them)

Yea, the Ak-74 is an improved Ak-47 with a 5.45mm round, the 101 is the 5.56 nato round, i can't remember the others off the top of my head, but on or two of them were a carbine type thing, one was a very modernized AK-47 using the same 7.62mm intermediate round, and one used the 5.45 (and it wasn't the AK-74) you forgot the AKM, which is an improved AK-47 (a little strengthened on the receiver i belive.)

[TehKiller]

Hmmmm u almost explained all the differences between them exept for one thing.....the first AK that comes with a GL is AK107

[Flying Tigers]

GL as in Grenade Launcher or something else?

[TehKiller]

yep....and dont get confused with the BF2 guns (cuz theyve put a GL on a AK-47 and on AK-101)

[DerKrieger]

All Kalashnikov rifles can be equipped with GP-25/GP-40 grenade launchers.
The US did help the USSR in WWII with logistics- nearly all of the USSR's fuel and food came from the US- even a few aircraft and tanks made it to the USSR. True story- the US delivered tanks to Russia with "USA" stamped on the side- when the Red Army moved west, they came across nations that used the Roman writing system; it was believed by many in Slovakia that the "USA" stood for "Ubiyat Sukensyna Adolfa"-"Kill that son of a bitch Adolf."