75 replies to this topic

[CodeCat]

That's exactly what it is, yes.

[Kris]

I was right all along! *wins the internet for finding the true meaning of the new board*

*hides after teh spam post*

[Dr. Strangelove]

This desicion will forever be as conterversial as the topics in the Deep End itself.

[Eddy01741]

Golan, on 24 Apr 2007, 11:21, said:

Sorry, but IMO the DE was the most mature forum at ES, at least the bigger part of it. No useless oneliners, no "I agree. Full stop. End of post."-nonsense, a lot of reasonalbe (though admittedly somewhat heated) argumentations, complex opinions and so on...

Yes, the neutrality of staffis is a problem, I agree with that one. I have to say that I´m immensly impressed that POTP (who was the most active of the "higher council") never really overreacted to the bullshit presented by us. But there are many members and staff ´round here that are really not interested in politics at all. Give the DE authority to one of them, I´ve seen this working in quite many other forums.

Smooder, on 23 Apr 2007, 20:05, said:

This forum is turning into a dictatorship more and more every day.

"Dictatorship" really doesn´t apply here. The fact that this discussion hasn´t been closed by now only underlines this.

Bob, on 23 Apr 2007, 20:46, said:

This forum is primarily about modding cnc based games[...]

:rotfll: Heh, sorry, no offence, but that´s a good one...

Nightshadow, on 23 Apr 2007, 21:09, said:

Whining, crying and carrying on ain't gonna help you one bit.

If you thinks that´s whining and crying... perhaps you should have visited the DE a bit more.

The deep end had the most extremes. There wer calm, nice good political debates, and there were absolute blind flame wars filled with hatred and ignorance. Anyways, each one of those flame wars were prety much about whos the good guys, Israel or the rest of the Middle East and the militia groups there, and what religion is right, and if god even exists, and each one also broke the rules of the DE many times over, this was bound to happen.

[CoLT]

This was bound to happen eventually.
With people from all over the globe, with different political opinions, it was fairly obvious that there would be friction. When the Deep End was created, that was known, I'm sure.
The debating and senseless "infighting" was part and parcel of the Deep End. It's degeneration was not. I find that to be the main problem and when it is able to degenerate from educated discussion and debate to childish fighting and intellectually-devoid posting, the Deep End loses purpose. The SYD was the place for such stupidity.
People need to learn that when they are backed into a losing position, they must not void the rules of the Deep End to support a futile fight. I'm sad to see this happen and I hope that people can learn from this and accept that there are opinions in the world that differ from their own.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I knew the degenracy of the DE very well, but I still loved it.

Even though spammy and inane topics dominated the forum 20/1, it was worth it because every ounce in awhile you would come upon one where discussions were taken seirously, and relpys thought out. These were like fertile patches of land in the sahara desert, you would stay there, check back every 5 hours/every day/every week, and it would be great fun.

[RaiDK]

TBH I was too scared to post there most of the time.

[Eddy01741]

I must admit, it was fun shutting down people in the Deep End (but that usually was part of a larger flame war), but then when people have different views and nobody wants to give in to the reality (or to the majority of the opinions), then it's just all out flame war.

[Mathias]

Philosophers corner = Deep End. But no political threads.

/golfclap

[Futschki]

Yeah ... DeepEnd-Politics=Philosopher's Corner
Which is 10x better

[Mathias]

You kinda missed the point of my post.

[Soul]

You think this should be locked to stop spam, it's kinda served it's purpose now.

Edit: Leatherneck pointed out a slight mistake on my part .

Edited by Soul, 27 April 2007 - 23:35.

[Whitey]

And now I think you used now 3 times in that sentence now.

Anyway, I'll agree to the above but put out a closing argument: The political debates held in the DE changed my views in multiple small ways over time. I learned from previous wrongs and am getting better and better at debating politics. It was a place to learn and discuss international affairs, a lot of times with reasonable people (not always, of course). Sure the arguments got heated, but there were those of us who DID supply rational arguments, no matter how conflicted they were. If one member can benefit from the forum being there, then why take it away?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Actually and apperently, a lot more than one member.

[Areze]

"The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few." /cheesymoviequote

True that a couple of people want it open, but many people are kinda "meh", or "cool" with the closing. It started to many flame wars. There were good threads, but the flaming just was too much to keep it open. So it got the sack. I frankly don't care, I think I posted there, like 6 times in the couple of months I've been here.

[Whitey]

"If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" /???

Too many people follow bandwagons blindly. This includes many members here. Nobody needs the DE closed or Open, but for some of us, it was convenient to have it open, but it was inconvenient to nobody outside the staff. The fact that the staff cannot deal with a flame war is beyond me. A few clicks and a member is banished from that forum; case closed. (Hey, it happened to me)

[Slightly Wonky Robob]

if it were that simple we may do that

but there are 2 main things, the staff all come from different backgrounds, and would have different opinions, this means, when one staff thinks someone is out of line others may say he wasn't... and even if we did eventually decide to ban someone, its never that simple, think of that last time we banned someone from the forum (yes it was the whole forum, but the same principle applies)

[Golan]

Well as long as these flame wars stay in the DE and infect other parts of the forum, why care? Many members lynching each other in the DE were on good terms in the rest of the forums.

[Hobbesy]

Well then go find another forum with a political disscussion sub-forum Leatherneck! Its not like anyone here is stopping you!

[Whitey]

You know what? Shut up and exit my international presence. How dare you tell me to leave when you have yet to provide some useful points that contradict my own. Don't lash out at me like that you little imp.

Edited by Leatherneck, 30 April 2007 - 02:08.

[Athena]

Keep it cool guys, no flaming.

[spiderspag]

Leatherneck brings up some great points though- have you ever thought just how damaging to the E-Studio's modding community the whole "if you don't like it, leave" policy might be?

I may have stayed on with ShW despite my disgust at the decision, but other members who help out with mods may choose not to, especially if faced with an ultimatum like that.

spiderspag

[Athena]

Hobbes never said Leatherneck should leave. He said he should find another forum, it's possible to be on multiple forums you know.

I don't see how that's an ultimatum. In the end this *is* our forum and in the end it is our decision which subforums we add or remove. This is a measure that was taken out of necessity. We have already explained this. It is sometimes true that not every single member sees or agrees with that neccessity, I've noticed that on another forums. But in the end it turns out the forum team knows what's best. It is impossible to always please everyone.

I fail to see how discussing or helping a mod is intertwined with whether we have a subforum about things not-modding related.

I believe it would be better to let this topic now rest, the people who wanted to share their opinion on this matter have done so.

[CoLT]

Well as far as i can see, nothing has changed really. You can still have the same discussions in the Philosopher's corner as before. So long as you dont post "such and such govt sux for this reason" threads, its ok. You can still discuss wars and economics and stuff.

But I still dont see why it wasnt possible, other than uncodability, to just make the DE invisible to troublemaking users in the same way that the staff forums of mods are invisible to those outside of the project team. THat would have solved the problem.

[Alias]

Blaat85, on 30 Apr 2007, 16:10, said:

it's possible to be on multiple forums you know.

It is, because I know from experience. I'm on 7.