48 replies to this topic

[Prophet of the Pimps]

how about not recreating old games but doing making an alternate story line. That can give us so much new possibilities to explorer.

[Razven]

Lol, a 3d pacman.

[Saint]

I'd like to see a remake of Final Fantasy VII. With voices etc. and Tetris on ps3!!! =D

-Saint-

[Athena]

There actually are 3D Pacman games. I rocked at one of them that I played ^_^.

@ Prophet
Sounds good to me.

cryptkeeper, on 5 Aug 2007, 17:09, said:

CoLT, on 5 Aug 2007, 5:49, said:

Quote

Maybe slightly offtopic but I would like to add another answer to this question. What I think the gaming industry needs to start doing, aside from what RaiDK mentioned, is to get their heads out of their arses and realise their full market (including many ages and both genders). They need to realise no woman is going to fight in armour that doesn't cover everything while the men in the game fight in full armour.

Well hey, Lara Craft was designed specifically with sex appeal in mind, so you can see the mindset developers have. Somehow, I don't think that will change much. However, I support you on this one. I would like to see women in games that are at least attempting to appear realistic. i.e. proportionately as well as attired.

everquest 2 is like that but the armor is so boring its fantasy game we need armor that doesn't look realistic I'm sorry but I believe there needs to be choose and I do know some girls who actually like that kind of armor XD

@ CoLt
I also doubt it will change much but I can hope.

@ cryptkeeper
If it's not supposed to be realistic then what about the males' armour? That is much more realistic. It's quite obvious it's done for the sole bloody purpose of to appeal sexually to males. I know many girls and women that are against that sort of armour and who like to be seen as an individual rather than an object.

[Cryptkeeper]

Blaat85, on 5 Aug 2007, 14:07, said:

There actually are 3D Pacman games. I rocked at one of them that I played ^_^.

@ Prophet
Sounds good to me.

cryptkeeper, on 5 Aug 2007, 17:09, said:

CoLT, on 5 Aug 2007, 5:49, said:

Quote

Maybe slightly offtopic but I would like to add another answer to this question. What I think the gaming industry needs to start doing, aside from what RaiDK mentioned, is to get their heads out of their arses and realise their full market (including many ages and both genders). They need to realise no woman is going to fight in armour that doesn't cover everything while the men in the game fight in full armour.

Well hey, Lara Craft was designed specifically with sex appeal in mind, so you can see the mindset developers have. Somehow, I don't think that will change much. However, I support you on this one. I would like to see women in games that are at least attempting to appear realistic. i.e. proportionately as well as attired.

everquest 2 is like that but the armor is so boring its fantasy game we need armor that doesn't look realistic I'm sorry but I believe there needs to be choose and I do know some girls who actually like that kind of armor XD

@ CoLt
I also doubt it will change much but I can hope.

@ cryptkeeper
If it's not supposed to be realistic then what about the males' armour? That is much more realistic. It's quite obvious it's done for the sole bloody purpose of to appeal sexually to males. I know many girls and women that are against that sort of armour and who like to be seen as an individual rather than an object.

what? Its is a fantasy game I believe you should be giving a choose between what every you want to wear if you want more realistic looking armor fine if you want the other sort of stuff fine I'm in no way supporting the males should be the only ones with realistic armor give them some other kind of armor too XD

basically i would like the choose which may happen in the future once in eq 2 they fix the character skeletons becuase yah i know there a girls who don't but there girls who like really skimpy armor for some reason XD

Edited by cryptkeeper, 06 August 2007 - 02:46.

[DreadNot]

A remake of Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries would be total ass kickery.

[Athena]

cryptkeeper, on 6 Aug 2007, 4:46, said:

basically i would like the choose which may happen in the future once in eq 2 they fix the character skeletons becuase yah i know there a girls who don't but there girls who like really skimpy armor for some reason XD

I would like the choice to wear "normal" armour as a woman. But I often do not get to have this choice. And I believe that is a real shame. Any game that exploits men and women like that will never have my full support. I know many women who feel similarly to how I feel, it's why I joined a gaming community where the majority of the members is female.

[MentalAss]

Grim Reaper, on 5 Aug 2007, 23:45, said:

A remake of Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries would be total ass kickery.

I get on my knees every day and pray for Mechwarrior 5 with the old school Mechwarrior 3 way of customization. Till then MekTek FTW! I can't wait for MekPak 4.

[Whitey]

BattleTanx: Global Assault would be win.

[Kris]

With better gfx!

[Saint]

Pong! remade for PC. DX10 capable. Anti-Aliasing x16. Ultra Graphics. Make it as graphical as freakin Crysis.

Just being random. They should just remake a bunch of N64 games and PSX games if they cant think of anything. Might end up 20-30 years from now having Resident Evil 21, Final Fantasy XXXII, Call Of Duty 14, Counter Strike Africa, Mario Party Six-Teen. Freaking sequels... After a while it'll all just seem like the same thing. =/

**exaggeration

-Saint-

Edited by Saint, 06 August 2007 - 09:28.

[Cryptkeeper]

Blaat85, on 6 Aug 2007, 1:06, said:

cryptkeeper, on 6 Aug 2007, 4:46, said:

basically i would like the choose which may happen in the future once in eq 2 they fix the character skeletons becuase yah i know there a girls who don't but there girls who like really skimpy armor for some reason XD

I would like the choice to wear "normal" armour as a woman. But I often do not get to have this choice. And I believe that is a real shame. Any game that exploits men and women like that will never have my full support. I know many women who feel similarly to how I feel, it's why I joined a gaming community where the majority of the members is female.

well you should be glad eq 2 doesn't theres nothing but normal armor with a few exception in the form of just cosmetic armor has no fighting value but the bad thing is theres not anof well good fantasy like stuff like artistic stuff most of it looks so realistic its boring


I'm interested what gaming community is that?

also i do agree that far many too many games use sex appeal as a selling point which does make me go mehhh that never sells a game to me

[General Kirkov]

I want a remake of Mech II. By far the best of the rest and I own them all. All it needs is a graphics tweak and some added gameplay thingies.


Oh and a remake of Hind 95 (for windows 95 duh) I totally rocked in that game.

[Commander Abs]

While I unarguably agree with having the choice to have skimpy or full armor, there's a couple factors to reign in with it. Oh, and before I go through this, if I were playing with a female character, which I generally don't, I'd go the full armor because I like to extend a bit of realism to the generation of my characters.

Firstly, and probably one of the key issues from my perspective (as a software developer),, software developers (at least, good ones) are lazy. Google Good lazy software developers if you don't believe me So when presented with a situation where they can design a male model, a female model and be done with it, or design a male model (because nobody likes men in skimpy man-kinis ) and design two female models, one slender and skimpy, the other, well, normal. Given the level of detail that goes into models these days, that'd be a considerable amount of work more. So, running with the lazy rule, they make one of each.

Now, I don't condone objectifying women, but women are, as a generalisation, more attractive than women. One of my mates who is homosexual (really, ladies are never on the agenda for him) even admits says a 'plain' woman is more attractive (and moreover, aesthetically pleasing) than a drop-dead gorgeous man. Many women i know think women are cleaner, more beautiful examples of the human race than men, and I wouldn't disagree with them.

Back to software land now, end of the day a dev team wants what everyone else wants, riches and fame,, and they're lazy to boot. So they need to design a male model and a female model that will appeal to as many people as possible. When I want to play a game, I want to be 'The heroic, handsome ship captain', or 'The rough, rugged, strong soldier', or some other form of escapism. I'd imagine women would think similar, like 'The Beautiful heroine'. Because of games escapist, fantasy value, 'normal' doesnt quite pass the buck, unless it's required for the story. Thus, in the process, game designers *enhance* appealing factors of a games characters. Obviously, this can go too far ("Dead or Alive Volleyball" anyone?), but as far as marketing is concerned, it works.

Conversely, games designers don't want to design characters who are unremarkable, or in fact are detracting from the game. An unremarkable character will neither repel nor attract gamers. An appealing character will always attract more customers than it will lose (because indeed people may not buy a game because the female lead looks too much like Ms. Dominatrix 2007).

Woah,, rantification. End of the day, people will always have their individual preferences,,, odd i know but I'd like to see more redhead characters rather than the typical Blonde/Brunette,,, but developers will always choose what is A) Laziest and B) Sells best.

But I'm sure we all know that Lazy Developers + Good selling = Bad breast physics right?

[RaiDK]

Quote

but developers will always choose what is A) Laziest and B) Sells best.

EA, anyone?

Kudos to developers for putting out titles like Overlord, which try new things.

[Athena]

I'm tired but I will reply to a few bits atm.

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 3:31, said:

Now, I don't condone objectifying women, but women are, as a generalisation, more attractive than women.

That doesn't justify objectifying us. I want women, and men, every person, to be seen as a person, not an object. People are not things to be owned and they are not less than any other person.

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 3:31, said:

Conversely, games designers don't want to design characters who are unremarkable, or in fact are detracting from the game. An unremarkable character will neither repel nor attract gamers. An appealing character will always attract more customers than it will lose (because indeed people may not buy a game because the female lead looks too much like Ms. Dominatrix 2007).

Attractive is not the same as extremely unrealistic big breasts, for example. And attraction is personal. Explain to me this. If it is true what you say, then why are there so many UNattractive male characters???

RaiDK, on 7 Aug 2007, 3:43, said:

Quote

but developers will always choose what is A) Laziest and B) Sells best.

EA, anyone?

At least EALA (C&C3) didn't objectify women or put them as lesser than equals. In that they earned more stripes for me personally than have done many other game developers who lowered themselves to objectifying. And I'm strongly shocked that there, apparently, are that many people who like to see women objectified.

RaiDK, on 7 Aug 2007, 3:43, said:

Kudos to developers for putting out titles like Overlord, which try new things.

I agree.

I may reply to more later on.

[fjsgdfsdjgbsgkjfg]

I want a remake of Body Harvest made by dma which is now rockstar games.
The game is GTA style+aliens=fun this game is where rockstar got the idea for GTA.

Edited by Boinkmakr, 07 August 2007 - 03:28.

[Whitey]

*sigh*

All video game characters are neither male nor female. They are all objects. If someone wants to drool over a skimpy video game character, that's their problem. But until the game market is stereotyped by females, the females are going to get shafted in games to appeal to the majority.

It's economics, not sexism.

[Commander Abs]

Quote

That doesn't justify objectifying us. I want women, and men, every person, to be seen as a person, not an object. People are not things to be owned and they are not less than any other person.

Firstly, I typoed I meant to say women are more attractive than men, not women.
Funnily enough, i reread my quote and wish I'd just said "Women are more attractive than men" and didn't mention anything about the objectifying, I kinda only put it in there in case the statement sounded like I was objectifying them. Because a woman is attractive doesnt mean they are owned, and it doesnt mean they're less than anyone, it's just a brain response. People *generally* find curvy, smooth objects more pleasing to the eye than rigid objects, I'd pick the circle over the square anyday for my favourite shape. Men generally come across as looking more like the latter. Nothing to do with ownership or being higher or lesser

Quote

Attractive is not the same as extremely unrealistic big breasts, for example. And attraction is personal. Explain to me this. If it is true what you say, then why are there so many UNattractive male characters???

Oh yeah, I totally agree, it annoys me to no end especially in fighting games. The problem is that there's a culture out there stemming back to the days of inequality for women that badly needs deprogramming, and it's this culture that means unrealistic breasts sell well in the market. It's tragic, but a natural reaction for any business, and any business who *wants* to make money sticks with what they know sells. A Tea Shop would not do well to set up in a town which exclusively drinks Coffee, even in the name of diversity of choice.

As for unattractive male characters, I'd imagine men wouldn't be too concerned about playing an ugly man, so long as theres enough of other stuff.

Sorry if I brushed you the wrong way, was speaking less of my own opinion and more of the grim reality of things. This is a bit off-topic, so maybe we should just agree to disagree if anything I totally get what your saying and agree wholeheartedly that things should be different, there's just a cultural change that has to happen first.

Slightly more on-topic, sequels frustrate me because all they are are the exact same game as before, just with shinier graphics and different levels/characters/tools,, one of the big reasons why I've never gone much on games like Tekken. In their initial release days, Virtua fighter, Tekken, Sega Rally were some of my favourite games,,, now when I see these in their 5th/6th iteration, I just whimper. But once again, can you blame a company for trying to use the same strategy which won them lots of money before?

Quote

It's economics, not sexism.

I'd more go for sexism brought on by economics. Just look to any japanese game for female stereotypes :(

Edited by Commander Abs, 07 August 2007 - 04:15.

[RaiDK]

Quote

Just look to anything japanese for female stereotypes

I fixed it

[Cryptkeeper]

Boinkmakr, on 6 Aug 2007, 22:28, said:

I want a remake of Body Harvest made by dma which is now rockstar games.
The game is GTA style+aliens=fun this game is where rockstar got the idea for GTA.

man i love that game i totally agree there

[Athena]

Boidy, on 7 Aug 2007, 5:45, said:

All video game characters are neither male nor female. They are all objects. If someone wants to drool over a skimpy video game character, that's their problem. But until the game market is stereotyped by females, the females are going to get shafted in games to appeal to the majority.

It's economics, not sexism.

Over 30%, maybe even 35-40% of the gamers is female according to ESRB statistics. But developers often just choose to ignore them. It is sexism imo.

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 6:13, said:

Funnily enough, i reread my quote and wish I'd just said "Women are more attractive than men" and didn't mention anything about the objectifying, I kinda only put it in there in case the statement sounded like I was objectifying them. Because a woman is attractive doesnt mean they are owned, and it doesnt mean they're less than anyone, it's just a brain response.

I don't totally understand what you mean here. It is a brain response to owe someone attractive even though they are an equal?

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 6:13, said:

People *generally* find curvy, smooth objects more pleasing to the eye than rigid objects, I'd pick the circle over the square anyday for my favourite shape. Men generally come across as looking more like the latter. Nothing to do with ownership or being higher or lesser

Attraction still doesn't mean we should be owned or objectified. We're much more than just a body.

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 6:13, said:

Oh yeah, I totally agree, it annoys me to no end especially in fighting games. The problem is that there's a culture out there stemming back to the days of inequality for women that badly needs deprogramming, and it's this culture that means unrealistic breasts sell well in the market. It's tragic, but a natural reaction for any business, and any business who *wants* to make money sticks with what they know sells. A Tea Shop would not do well to set up in a town which exclusively drinks Coffee, even in the name of diversity of choice.

I think the culture needs a radical change. Also I believe that making a game should be fun, not just for the money. What about a Tea Shop in a town where there's also people wanting tea? Should they just be forgotten merely because the coffee people have been dominating them over centuries?

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 6:13, said:

As for unattractive male characters, I'd imagine men wouldn't be too concerned about playing an ugly man, so long as theres enough of other stuff.

I guess. But IF men can have attractive female characters. Then I demand an attractive male character. And imagine how gays and lesbians must feel.. I really hate it for example when you are forced to play a male character that then is responding in a certain way to a female character. I don't care about her, just leave her alone and get on with the game shall we. I can imagine that for gays and lesbians this is annoying too.

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 6:13, said:

Sorry if I brushed you the wrong way, was speaking less of my own opinion and more of the grim reality of things.

I understand. I know how things are. I'm more interested in knowing peoples opinion about it than about why it is so. I won't start to believe it is right the way things are.

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 6:13, said:

I totally get what your saying and agree wholeheartedly that things should be different, there's just a cultural change that has to happen first.

Thanks . I agree, there needs to be a cultural change for that to happen. And I want that cultural change, I want more equality and less objectifying. In my country there's been a petition about it (not about games, about the culture) that's been signed by many people already, including myself.

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 6:13, said:

Slightly more on-topic, sequels frustrate me because all they are are the exact same game as before, just with shinier graphics and different levels/characters/tools,, one of the big reasons why I've never gone much on games like Tekken. In their initial release days, Virtua fighter, Tekken, Sega Rally were some of my favourite games,,, now when I see these in their 5th/6th iteration, I just whimper. But once again, can you blame a company for trying to use the same strategy which won them lots of money before?

I agree with this. You can't blame them but I'd rather play a new, original game.

Commander Abs, on 7 Aug 2007, 6:13, said:

Quote

It's economics, not sexism.

I'd more go for sexism brought on by economics.

That seems more correct yeah.

[KiraSama]

Saint, on 6 Aug 2007, 11:21, said:

Pong! remade for PC. DX10 capable. Anti-Aliasing x16. Ultra Graphics. Make it as graphical as freakin Crysis.

Just being random. They should just remake a bunch of N64 games and PSX games if they cant think of anything. Might end up 20-30 years from now having Resident Evil 21, Final Fantasy XXXII, Call Of Duty 14, Counter Strike Africa, Mario Party Six-Teen. Freaking sequels... After a while it'll all just seem like the same thing. =/

**exaggeration

-Saint-

Link very related

[Commander Abs]

Quote

I don't totally understand what you mean here. It is a brain response to owe someone attractive even though they are an equal?

Maybe pulling out just how subjective this sorta thing is, but from my own experience, if I find someone attractive, I'm kinda humbled, shy, maybe even a little more self-conscious. I certainly don't feel like I own them, in fact I'd say I would feel more like they owned me, or that I was inferior to them in some way. I'm generally a pretty submissive sort. But I understand the brain response, akin to "I like that, I *want* it"

Quote

Attraction still doesn't mean we should be owned or objectified. We're much more than just a body.

Totally.

Quote

Also I believe that making a game should be fun, not just for the money.

I remember when I was pretty outcast from the rest of my friends coz I spent my time playing VGs (on top of doing Scouts, Karate, and a few other things which didn't really involve people I knew at school), and back then it was "nerdy", "uncool" and "boring" to do that sorta thing. Those were the times in my mind when it *was* about fun, even though multiplayer wasnt what it is today. Now I look around, every man and his dog owns a PS, Nintendo or Xbox, and although it's fun, all they care about is "Clocking the game, selling it and getting a new one with shinier bells and whistles". I still enjoy Dark Reign, and think it knocks the socks off some of todays RTS games, it had underdeveloped features which would be awesome in a game today, developers just can't be bothered.

One source of frustration for me though is how some games seem to suffer in terms of playability just so they can have a balanced, playable multiplayer. While I understand the social aspect of multiplayer and the demand for it, part of me feels it's a cop out by AI and content developers to replace a *real* challenge with human opponents in a balanced environment.

I remember when games took me a month or two to complete, and I was a kid with *lots* of time to play games. My skills have grown obviously, but the challenge of the games hasn't, and I'd like to see a game thats not an endless MMO do that again for me.