91 replies to this topic

[WarMenace]

Go ahead and believe what you all want. My opinion is straightforward and it is what it is. And I have here 3 main reasons why i think the forums should be left alone and left to the admins to decide what they want best for the forums.

1
The forums are going smoothly from what I see now, there are members who are active and doing what they usually do on the forums, nothing to be worried about.

2
If a change is to be made, then people in the future would want MORE changes, and that will never end, and will eventually make the forums not as a whole, but an individual's own idea.

3
There are ADMINISTRATORS for a reason, they make the forums, they make the rules. Leave them be, whatever they decide is their decision, if there were no admins, this wouldn't be a forum.

Go ahead, flame me, insult me do whatever, I'm speaking my mind and all I'm saying and asking for is to keep the rules and regulations the way it is.

Edited by WarMenace92, 30 August 2008 - 04:52.

[retry_1]

 WarMenace92, on 30 Aug 2008, 0:51, said:

2
If a change is to be made, then people in the future would want MORE changes, and that will never end, and will eventually make the forums not as a whole, but an individual's own idea.

sorry. there is a major flaw with this statement. if changes are granted now, and "more people"(aka others) get their changes(as long as they are reasonable, sensible ideas), and they are all members of the forum, then it is the forum as a whole, or atleast majority, it can't be a minority, because if small group asked for change, and they were the minority, the larger group would shoot the idea down at the start. again, the forum as a whole.

[Alias]

 WarMenace92, on 30 Aug 2008, 14:51, said:

Go ahead and believe what you all want. My opinion is straightforward and it is the way it should be. I'm also beginning to notice that some people just make random ideas so they can have what they want. That's not the case, so there are 3 main reasons why i think the forums should be left alone and left to the admins to decide what they want best for the forums.

Random ideas? This is far more than that. I spent a good thirty minutes drafting that first post alone. If the community thinks the management is not doing a good job, we provide feedback. A forum is a two sided thing. A forum needs management, but it wouldn't exist without the plebs that are beneath. Take this example: What use is a brain if it has no body to control?

 WarMenace92, on 30 Aug 2008, 14:51, said:

1
The forums are going smoothly from what I see now, there are members who are active and doing what they usually do on the forums, nothing to be worried about.

You don't see very much, therefore that view is skewed. The administration is nowhere near as active as it should be, and there have been issues involving staff in previous times, which again, you were not here for. I feel you're just being a bootlick here, and I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that.

 WarMenace92, on 30 Aug 2008, 14:51, said:

2
If a change is to be made, then people in the future would want MORE changes, and that will never end, and will eventually make the forums not as a whole, but an individual's own idea.

That's a bit contradictory. More and more people wanting changes would make the board more of an individual thing? Not to mention that nothing lasts forever.

 WarMenace92, on 30 Aug 2008, 14:51, said:

3
There are ADMINISTRATORS for a reason, they make the forums, they make the rules. Leave them be, whatever they decide is their decision, if there were no admins, this wouldn't be a forum.

Of course. Refer to point one. " A forum is a two sided thing. A forum needs management, but it wouldn't exist without the plebs that are beneath."

[WarMenace]

Alias, I don't think the admins would care about this thread at all. Out of this whole thread, guess who the only admin responses were? Yea, it's E.V.E. And as far as I know, she didn't seem to like your idea. So she's the admin, let her do what she wants to make things right, if she has a suggestion about the forum, she has that control and she will make it happen at will, so no need to tell me my ideas won't make a difference, yours won't too and this thread will probably be made for nothing if no admins agree at all. I agree with some of your ideas, I admit it but that would just unbalance the whole forum and it'll have to be fixed again. Different rules will be added, and sooner or later the admins will have little or no control of the forums because of one man's idea, trying to make the forums the way HE wants it to be.

So yea, bombard me with insults, I don't really care. And I'm sure some people in here will support me.

[Alias]

 WarMenace92, on 30 Aug 2008, 15:16, said:

Alias, I don't think the admins would care about this thread at all. Out of this whole thread, guess who the only admin responses were? Yea, it's E.V.E. And as far as I know, she didn't seem to like your idea. So she's the admin, let her do what she wants to make things right, if she has a suggestion about the forum, she has that control and she will make it happen at will, so no need to tell me my ideas won't make a difference, yours won't too and this thread will probably be made for nothing if no admins agree at all. I agree with some of your ideas, I admit it but that would just unbalance the whole forum and it'll have to be fixed again. Different rules will be added, and sooner or later the admins will have little or no control of the forums because of one man's idea, trying to make the forums the way HE wants it to be.

So you support totalitarianism? I'd like to think this forum still had a bit of public opinion left. If one admin doesn't like it, that doesn't make it a bad proposition. Ever heard of a petition? If it gets enough public support the management has to do something. Also, it'd "Unbalance" what in what way?
I guess you'll just continue life like a mindless slave to the system like you do now. Your actions here really make me think you are fawning.

[WarMenace]

I think you're just a jealous fool. Making this thread because you want to make the forums the way you want it to be. Like I said, only 1 admin came in, and decided to make her own idea. Know why? The others don't really care, and I supported this idea at first, but now you give that attitude because I gave my own opinion, my own idea, I thought you said before that I can speak my mind? What happened to that? Just because I said you could flame me or whatever, you decide to get smart instead. So if you want your ideas to be accepted, become an admin, or just make your own forum because as far as I know this thread is getting nowhere.

And go ahead and start to flame me again, if this thread was closed it'll be all on your own fault.

[Alias]

Jealous of what? I made this thread as I dislike the current social structure, and that immediately makes me a criminal? You don't have your own opinion, you just agree with whoever has the greatest status in the thread. Getting nowhere? Far from it. I never expected this thread to make it past two pages, and I never expected the overwhelming amount of support it got. I'd say it's far from getting nowhere as it's attained a mighty 80 posts in less than 24 hours.

 WarMenace92, on 30 Aug 2008, 15:27, said:

So if you want your ideas to be accepted, become an admin, or just make your own forum because as far as I know this thread is getting nowhere.

So you also have to be a ShockWave team member to have ideas accepted?

The others do care, they are letting this unfold.

Edited by Alias, 30 August 2008 - 05:34.

[Lizzie]

 wi-ta, on 29 Aug 2008, 23:09, said:

After I have read all here one thing got clear to me.
Some users have their personal problems with the admins.
This is not the issue here, it should be in this thread only go about the Forum and how the staff dealing with it.

There are always two sides of the coin.
A personal and the Forum.
The personal reasons into the background please and constructive criticism to the front.

You should also know that English is not the mother tongue of all users (like me).
So that it may be some opinions sound funny or stupid to you please be careful you can hurt someone if you flame him.

best regards
Wi-Ta

And my personal problems with the admins tie in with what I think about how the staff do their job. Thus they are relevant and I will continue to dredge them up should the need arise.

[Rich19]

Late reply ftw... Some responses to some points brought up, in no particular order:

I agree that there are a disproportionate amount of staffers (especially admins) for the size of the member base. I haven't noticed many abuses of staff power, but then I'm not as active as some here. If staff are inactive they ought to be "retired with honours", but this should not simply happen to even out numbers - the inactivity is the sole issue there. Otherwise, keep the current staff, but don't hire any more until it is really necessary.

Although I have nothing against CommanderJB personally and believe he will do an excellent job of moderation, I have to ask why the administration deemed it necessary to add him to the team. Unless there was an event like spam attack or a bot posting adverts/dodgy links and the previous staff were all offline for hours during this attack, which I am unaware of, I don't see any real need to add another staffer. Is the administration trying to cover for other staffer's inactivity by unofficially "replacing" them?

The way I see it, enthusiasm for a job is important in any role, and forum moderation is no different. Perhaps someone who wants to be a staffer would be more active than someone who was offered the role out of the blue. Nevertheless, I do think it is slightly odd that those who made this point earler were the same people who were telling us that there are too many staff to begin with. The solution to the "staff problem" ought to be encouraging more activity and honourably retiring those who do not comply, not hiring another set of staff.

[Wi-Ta]

 Lizzie, on 30 Aug 2008, 7:53, said:

And my personal problems with the admins tie in with what I think about how the staff do their job. Thus they are relevant and I will continue to dredge them up should the need arise.

That is in my point of view ok aslong as you do it in a respectful way.

You see Alias did start in a respectful way to point the things out he do not like and on some points (not all) i will support him.
The thing is some guys (Alias and WarMenace92) are going to make this topic a flame fight,
and this is going nowere for this forum.

best regards
Wi-TA

[Alias]

Thankyou for the support, Wi-ta.

No flame fight will happen here. That is as far as I will take the argument against Warmenace, and now we proceed back to the actual topic at hand.

[Wi-Ta]

Ok now to the point

This forum has many members and in my eyes too few (Active) admins

This forum admins also want to have one or the other mod to edit, and then they are still about to take care of a growing community?
It is clear that this might be just to much to ask in future.

1)So the question seems appropriate what can be changed to lay the weight on more shoulders?
2)How can an environment be created that is for all better?
3)If change must be made this has to be well thought out, who does?

Edit:
We have 3532 registered members
Most users ever online was 1052
We have 5 Administrators
We have 8 Global Moderators
Only to give you some numbers to think about.
Edit end

Ok these are only the first points from me

Best regads
Wi-Ta

Edited by wi-ta, 30 August 2008 - 08:01.

[Shirou]

 E.V.E., on 30 Aug 2008, 3:43, said:

You might aswell just have written my Name.

And most retired Staff Members already said it, and I'll say it again: Time spent on the Forums since Registration isn't the only thing that counts.

- E.V.E.

General activity, time spent on the forums, community contributions and overall popularity, apparently all fall behind the arguments of ''Mature and Quality Posts!". To me, that sounds like the Staff is really forgetting about the other duties of the Staff. They need to be active in most of the forums to be well known by all the different members. They need to be there for the members, they are there with their powers to liven the place up. How long has it been since there was something cool or different done by an admin or staffer which excited a lot of members. Nowadays I consider Comr4de a loner in these areas. The other forum admins have done a lot for the community in the past but that seems a bit dormant now too.

A staffer needs to be an exemplary staff member, but NOT in the way of 'maturity and quality posts'. No, he/she needs to be involved in all things that are needed to guide a forum, not just acting the newly appointed cop.

Sure, CommanderJB is an excellent forum member but if we talk about his fame among members, well there isn't any because he isn't well-known. This is an excellent example of the space that is, inavertently or not, created between the Staff and the Members. CommanderJB serves only to moderate, to cut down spam, to lock topics. What honour is that, what community contribution is that if the community will only get to know him as that uninvolved moderator who locks topics or gives warnings, and furthermore only gets attached to the members he actually shares interests with, which aren't so many as other members with more posts and more forum veterancy.

Edited by Aftershock, 30 August 2008 - 08:01.

[Rayburn]

``This forum admins also want to have one or the other mod to edit, and then they are still about to take care of a growing community?´´

I wouldn't say the community's really growing. Sure, 3532 is an impressive number and it's getting more but how many of these members actually do ANYthing around here? The active community (that is, people who post and contribute on a regular basis; people you associate with ES, people you recognise etc) consists of maybe a hundred members, tops. Most of the others are just lurkers who do bugger all. They registered, but they never did anything other than maybe asking a single question about some mod or getting the obligatory HBD-thread. No offence to these people but they make up a huge portion of the 3532. The REAL community is much smaller than that. It's not like the staffers constantly have to look after 3000+ people.

Edited by Rayburn, 30 August 2008 - 08:33.

[Crazykenny]

To Menace: How the hell can you discuss in a topic like this when you are barely around here for a month? Like Ion already stated you arent here long enough to have seen the changes. So please do us, no do ME a favor stick around here longer for a month before you open your big mouth.

As for the topic, I agree the Staff has some major flaws in some parts Alias stated. But in general, I find this forum moderating well enough for me to browse around.

[Wi-Ta]

Quote

The REAL community is much smaller than that. It's not like the staffers constantly have to look after 3000+ people.

Partly you are right Rayburn but this can change very fast. Hey have a look on all these nice mods here most of them are not ready and this will change for shure.

So do you not think better do now some change and give the mod teams more space and time?


@Crazykenny
How can you talk like that?
Do you want to start a flame war?
Do you now how long he was reading this forum without register?
Can you please say this in a respectful way to him?

We all did start to talk in a respectful way so please join us on this.

best regards
wi-TA

[Wizard]

There has been enough Staff bashing here now.

There are areas of inactivity, granted, but this thread just seems to be attracting attacks with no substantiative input beyond that. It is one thing provide us with your opinions and feedback but some people here feel that they need to air their grievances just for the sake of it.

I honestly don't see many members of the populace who spend more time here than some of us. And it is just plain wrong to suggest that we all are not active or that we all don't do anything for the community. Things have now gotten to the stage where several of you are tarnishing everyone with the same brush and I am not going to tolerate that. Let's not forget that without "some" there wouldn't be a community to complain about in the first place.

CommanderJB was appointed as we felt he'd be a good moderator, for many reasons and there are plenty of good reasons why there are a lot of people we don't think would be good moderators. Just because you have been here a for a while and been a BT or produced something for a mod doesn't mean you would make a good staffer. Community contribution is an asset and not a prerequesite. Do you "deserve" it? If you did you would have it now. Maybe you shouldn't be questioning why others got it and asking yourself why you haven't?? The answer won't be our fault.

Everyone complains about the way this forum is run as though it is a police state, well it isn't. There are enormous amounts of leigh-way given in pretty much everything and one more moderator isn't going to change the that. It enables us to have an extra voice on issues, a helpful pair of hands and a sound mind. Moderation rights allow us to make sure things run smoothly and that nothing gets out of hand. It isn't there for anything else. And yes, that can be for the benefit of the community without making a mod or starting a w00t spam thread that lasts a while.

You have said your piece now and we have said ours.

Topic Closed