58 replies to this topic

[Uber Daisy]

This is by me ^^ Since I didn't play too much TS or anything before it, sry if I missed a major unit from back then.

10
Kirov Airship - Perhaps the most destructive unit in Red Alert 2, the Kirov Airship was the stingy man's superweapon, capable of laying waste to anything it could position itself over. Since it was such a slow unit, the Kirov normally focused its efforts on base assault. Unfortunately, its total incompatibility with the rest of the Soviet army was its undoing, as all Soviet units were faster and operating on a different plane of mobility, and a large force of tanks could do without the help of a Kirov when it came to base assault. Additionally, the announcement to all players that announced the completion of a Kirov and its unparalleled sluggishness allowed the enemy to dedicate quite some time to preparation, usually intercepting the Kirov on the way with anti-air units. Even if you kept support units under the Kirov, preparation of a few static defenses would fell the Kirov with minimal investment and very little damage. It did find itself often used on the most cramped Free-for-all maps, but has been declared inferior in most situations to the rest of the Soviet arsenal, for sheer inflexibility and unreliability.

9
Attack Outpost - First off, it doesn't make any sense. It's a stealthed vehicle that blares propaganda through its built-in speaker tower, a massive buff from China's primary detector, the Listening Outpost, but one that nonsensically denies the unit a trade-off for this advantage. The unit's role completely morphed from the original unit. While the LO had been designed to supply China with field intelligence, an AO packed with InfGen's veteran infantry was perhaps the most versatile and destructive single unit in Zero Hour, despite being available so early. It wasn't unstoppable if properly scouted, but it certainly seems like too much was packed into this early-game unit, especially with the unparalleled spam that took place in matches vs. China and USA.

8
Desolator - Easily the greatest flaw in RA2 was the Mirage Tank. But one of the worst aspects of that unit was the fact that only one Soviet faction could counter them: Iraq with their overpowered Desolators. The $600 desolator could not be crushed by enemy tanks, allowing them to sit and irradiate the entire battlefield while the enemy creeped away to avoid damage. In a flak track, two or three desolators were capable of causing tens of thousands of dollars of damage in an instant against the Allied late game, and walking, they made unparalleled cannon fodder in Soviet wars as well as a devastating complement to Apocalypses in vRA2.

7
Pathfinder - This is perhaps the most cost-effective unit in the history of C&C. One or two of these $600 snipers could make walking infantry (including heroes) entirely useless for the enemy, being stealthed while firing or garrisoned in a building. Fortunately these units could be detected and snuffed out with ease by the time they became available to USA, but if a player placed them in his humvees, they would be solid and fast in addition to powerful, perfectly complementing the missile defenders that would also populate the vees. This is what happens when you implement CS:S's headshot syndrome into an RTS and give only one faction such powerful snipers.

6
Mirage Tank - An ambush unit designed to catch the enemy off-guard with superior firepower, this unit would have been the ultimate flanking force in the face of a tank offensive, leaving the enemy with nowhere to run except through their attackers. Unfortunately, RA2 had no method of neutralizing the stealth of land vehicles, so the Soviets in particular would have a great deal of trouble without the ability to auto-target enemy Mirage Tanks, making their lack of armor a much smaller disadvantage than the developers would have liked. So instead of complementing the grizzly and prism as a support unit they became extremably spammable against the Soviets, with Iraqi Desolators posing the only genuine threat.

5
Avatar - Originally, the Avatar was supposed to be a high-tier battle tank equivalent that could be upgraded into a walking superweapon. It didn't take long for people to realize they were completely useless. Avatars had a slow rate-of-fire and a weak weapon, and it was always considered more cost-effective to spam upgraded scorpion tanks even so late in the game. The Commandeer Technology ability, which allowed the Avatar to be customized, was also rarely used because the weapon/ability never added enough to make the loss of another unit worthwhile. Eventually, the Avatar was buffed over and over until it became outright overpowered, still straying from the original design intent because the commandeer technology buffs did so little to affect the unit's usefulness.

4
Sentry Drone - This unit is a total laugh. The new Zero Hour units and structures were added either to buff the strengths or even out the weaknesses of each faction, but what the Sentry had to add was too redundant with what USA already boasted: cheap, speedy detection. A humvee with a $100 scout drone had a better survival rate and combat ability than this overpriced lawn gnome, and the SD's detection range was as pitiful as its $1000 excuse for a weapon upgrade. What more is there to say? It was 2x as expensive as it should have been and what it was designed to do America could already do better for free.

3
Magnetron - Why does everyone hate Yuri so much? If you're a noob, it's his psychic units. If you're more experienced, its this. The Magnetron was Yuri's most overpowered weapon, and with Lasher support and good micro, it did more damage than a bunch of Yuri clones could ever hope to. The overpowered tactic in question was interfering in tank vs tank battles by lifting enemy tanks into the air and instantly dropping them, disabling their weapon until they were safe on the ground again, allowing Yuri's tanks to get plenty of free shots. This "tank juggling" maneuver was made all the more deadly by the possibility of the enemy tank being captured by an advancing Master Mind or landing on top of another enemy tank, wiping out both tanks in the process.

2
M.A.R.V. - One of the biggest steps back in C&C3 from Generals was the removal of the secondary economy, complicating later efforts to get the cash flow under control and prevent outright harvester spam until the entire map was depleted. In Kane's Wrath, they gave one faction the game-breaking advantage of making money without spamming refineries. The GDI epic unit, with more armor and the biggest gun in GDI's arsenal, was capable of paying for itself by staying out of battle and mining tiberium at a much faster pace than conventional harvesters, making it all the more deadly on the opponent's side of the field, whether fighting or swiftly depleting their resources by reaping it all for yourself. Fortunately, it was fixed, but the absurdity of the original design intention lives on in the game manual.

1
Boomer Sub - In an upfront naval battle, Yuri's expensive submarines were bound to lose against Destroyers, Dolphins, or Typhoon subs. This would make Yuri completely hopeless in any water map if he failed to get a boomer to the enemy base in the first two minutes. But if the rushing Boomer (which did NOT announce itself to all players upon construction) was not perfectly countered with robot tanks and adequate flak, the player would need to funnel his cash into anti-air and anti-submarine units, detrimentally affecting their chances in the coming battle. The Boomer was an attempt by Westwood to make a single unit play every role in Yuri's navy, but Yuri would've been a lot more balanced if Yuri had recieved an entire navy to bump the Boomer into Battle Lab level, where it belonged at its price and potential.

[Overdose]

I agree with this list.

[Pav:3d]

Great list, I'd add the Humvee to that however

[CommanderJB]

I'd also suggest the Cuban Terrorist from Red Alert 2; the were of course of the cheap, suicide spam-to-be-effective type, and as infantry units could take very little damage, but what's important is that if they were ever killed by any means then they went up in an almighty area-of-effect explosion, setting off your entire scrum of them at all once. Which pretty much made them useless, because microing them to spread out didn't work because the AoE was too large and they would all close together as they approached the target, then Kaboom! No more terrorists. Good for a laugh, not so good for effective use of cash.

[Alias]

Eh? Obviously you haven't seen the Flakbomb. Put an Ivan bomb on a a terrorist. Put terrorist in Flak track, add 4 more terrorists. Move Flak track to enemy base, eject.

More effective than a demo truck.

Edited by Alias, 16 September 2008 - 15:37.

[General]

I should say Ivan, maybe from my poor skills but I never able to destroy a unit with that thing, it always seems useless, at least to me >_>

[Dauth]

RA1 - Aftermath the Russian Cyborg (forgotten name) was unkillable by anything, except a dog which pwned him instantly.

[Kichō]

^Volkov/Telsa Trooper?

I'd say The Nuke/Tesla Technician in RA1, god those were fun but they were pretty much unkillable. XD

[Kaido]

Yes it was Volkov and his Cyborg Dog o.0

[Shirou]

Well if anything, when those units were made EA had a little variety in their games.

When looking at CnC3 and the upcoming RA3.. that variety is all gone. It's incredibly annoying safe play with as little of these 'fail' units as possible.

I would rather have a varied game with a few units like these then the 'play for a day, bore me away' games recently..

[CodeCat]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Artillery from RA. It had way too short a range for an actual artillery piece, and died way too quick to actually be useful. But it was great against buildings and infantry, even though it couldn't actually take out defences from a distance.

And then there's the Artillery from Tiberian Sun, which was incredibly overpowered. It took several patches to fix.

[AllStarZ]

Well the Artillery in RA was relatively cheap and it does pretty good damage. So you could screen them with mediums while they pound away at Sovies. Oddly enough, very bad against tesla coils (they more often get zapped by them than actually shoot them) but testa-coiles were imba anyways.

My nomination is the Thief. Simply useless. Not worth the trouble of sneaking into their base.

Edited by AllStarZ, 17 September 2008 - 01:00.

[Ghostrider]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Chrono-Navy Seal from RA2... that guy was so OP I couldn't stand it. Instant kill any building with the C4, instant kill any inf with his wtfpwn gun, and he could blow up any defense before it could hit him (tesla coil wasn't fast enough, sentry gun couldn't turn around fast enough, etc.). If he gets hurt? Teleport to the other side of the map to heal, then back in action.
"Little C4 knocking at your door!" :sh:

[RaiDK]

Anyone remember the C&C's top 5 useless units? I loved that video.

[TWPC920]

most flawed unit?

Yaks from RA1... completely pointless since you can get a hind and do a better job, not to mention they were not cost efficient AT ALL >.>

[Foxhound]

TECHNICIAN BATTLE!

Seriously, though.

The technician was originally made to be awesome. Then Westwood nerfed the hell out of it and then some. (The nerf happened before the game's actual release.)

Edited by Foxhound, 17 September 2008 - 05:17.

[TWPC920]

wasn't technicians always useless? it took like 2 hours for it to kill a rifle infantry...

[The Wandering Jew]

Based on titles:
(Note: standard specs, not the mod versions)

RA1:
1. Allied Thief- not feasible when he's easily killed by infantry (besides, he is not cloaked or something, so strike that)

Tiberian Sun:
1. Limpet Drone- Hey, where did that drone go? I attacked a harverster then it disappears upon unloading tiberium??

RA2:
1. Grand Cannon- If you have played Starcraft: Broodwar, then you probably knew what the Siege Tank's weaknesses were.

Yuri's Revenge
1. Brute- How about that? These steriod-massive guys can withstand tank ammos but very vulnerable to light arms fire? A Tank Destroyer on legs
2. Tank Destroyer- would have been nice if there was a machine gun attached, but no, there's none.
3. Siege Chopper- underpowered in aerial mode

Generals/Zero Hour:
1. GLA Worker- (you don't dare deploy this unit in the midst of a battle)
2. (all infantries)- spammable like heck
3. Assault Troop Transport (China Infantry General)- weakly armored, even for a BTR-60

Tiberium Wars/Kane's Wrath:
1. Planetary Assault Carrier (Scrin)- hefty price for a micro-intensive unit. If the unit is cheaper, then this is it.
2. Sandbags/Bunker (deployed by GDI Riflemen squad)- cannot be repaired.

That's about it.

P.S. The most useless unit is RA1's Technician. Don't give him a pistol for crying out loud. :stickattack2:

[Chronosheep]

Quote

P.S. The most useless unit is RA1's Technician. Don't give him a pistol for crying out loud.

Quote

wasn't technicians always useless? it took like 2 hours for it to kill a rifle infantry...

Quote

TECHNICIAN BATTLE!

Seriously, though.

The technician was originally made to be awesome. Then Westwood nerfed the hell out of it and then some. (The nerf happened before the game's actual release.)

Just wanted to point out that in some skirmish maps in Red Alert Retaliation (playstation equivalent of aftermath + counterstrike), blue technicians had tesla coil weapons, while green technicians fired nukes
...don't know if this easteregg is found in aftermath or counterstrike, though...

Edited by Chronosheep, 17 September 2008 - 08:00.

[Waris]

There is a mission in Aftermath where you play as the Soviets and are tasked to quell a rebellion in a village. The villagers are armed with tesla guns, one of them have a nuke strapped on him.

[Dutchygamer]

It's the map 'The Hills have Eyes' which has those nice civies AI always gets pwned
Most useless C&C unit for me? Dunno really... I use them all from time to time, although some less then others.

[Kichō]

TWPC920, on 17 Sep 2008, 5:10, said:

wasn't technicians always useless? it took like 2 hours for it to kill a rifle infantry...

Nuke and Tesla Technicians ain't

[Uber Daisy]

Ghostrider, on 16 Sep 2008, 21:22, said:

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Chrono-Navy Seal from RA2... that guy was so OP I couldn't stand it. Instant kill any building with the C4, instant kill any inf with his wtfpwn gun, and he could blow up any defense before it could hit him (tesla coil wasn't fast enough, sentry gun couldn't turn around fast enough, etc.). If he gets hurt? Teleport to the other side of the map to heal, then back in action.
"Little C4 knocking at your door!" :sh:

If someone manages to pull off a maneuver that would reward them with $2000 CCs, they deserved their new tactical advantage. Against a decent player, the spy is difficult to use well and this results in a super-inaccessible unit which really didn't shape the balance of the game. (unless you're using the declare-war cheat on your pals every single friggin match... This is the same reason I didn't include the Mutant Marauders from TW.

Now excuse me while I attack The Wandering Stupid.

The Wandering Jew said:

RA2:
1. Grand Cannon- If you have played Starcraft: Broodwar, then you probably knew what the Siege Tank's weaknesses were.

So I take it you're one of the 3-4 RA2 players with no idea how to conduct siege? (hint: make tanks) The only army that had any trouble at all against grand cannons was Yuri, and they still always beat France. And Terran siege tanks were weak against air units and grouped units, not long-range base defenses. If you had played Starcraft: Broodwar, then you'd probably know that.

Quote

Yuri's Revenge
1. Brute- How about that? These steriod-massive guys can withstand tank ammos but very vulnerable to light arms fire? A Tank Destroyer on legs
2. Tank Destroyer- would have been nice if there was a machine gun attached, but no, there's none.
3. Siege Chopper- underpowered in aerial mode

1. First off, the Brute was designed to be used as cannon fodder, not to withstand rifles. In practice, players found it easier just to use them as scouts and cash farms (with the Genetic Mutator combo, but they still would work well with their original role if Yuri actually had trouble keeping the enemy tanks back (Magnetrons overlapped the combat role pretty well).
2. Germany made good use of this unit if they had decent micro. They reverse tank rushes and ravage light vehicles, which is EXACTLY what they were designed to do.
3. First off, it's DEFINITELY not underpowered considering how well it rapes rocketeers. Second, it's designed to work on the GROUND. Have you ever hit the deploy button on it?

Quote

Generals/Zero Hour:
1. GLA Worker- (you don't dare deploy this unit in the midst of a battle)
2. (all infantries)- spammable like heck
3. Assault Troop Transport (China Infantry General)- weakly armored, even for a BTR-60

1. You don't dare deploy an MCV in the midst of a battle. You don't dare deploy an engineer in the midst of battle. Worker was hands down the best builder in ZH and was also ridiculously mobile if you knew that a technical could hold infantry. Where's the flaw?
2. Have you ever, ever played an RTS game?
3. Thank God, or else it would be even more overpowered than it is now.

Quote

Tiberium Wars/Kane's Wrath:
1. Planetary Assault Carrier (Scrin)- hefty price for a micro-intensive unit. If the unit is cheaper, then this is it.
2. Sandbags/Bunker (deployed by GDI Riflemen squad)- cannot be repaired.

1. Did you just read that from the manual? We're talking about units with problems here, not units that were designed well and work perfectly.
2. Repairable bunkers? OK... imagine the Allied GI in RA2, deployed, with extended range and 4 times the HP, constantly regenerating. Now imagine that he can be upgraded to rape any expensive vehicle in the area if a missile squad touches him. That's what you're suggesting is not flawed.

I'd recommend you actually play these games before you go on about what units' problems hurt the game.

Edited by Daishi, 17 September 2008 - 10:21.

[AZZKIKR]

well,the magnetron is a glass cannon. it can be very powerful, pulling vehicles and releasing them on cliffs, and it has a relatively long range. However, it does have thin armour and the inability to attack anything with legs or wings makes it useful in certain situations and a bane in others.

[JJ]

All artillery have weak armor. It wouldn't matter anyway because of its range.