45 replies to this topic

[BeefJeRKy]

Exactly, as politics tangled with religion, many changes turned for the worse. Despotic politicians were afraid of changes and science was one form of change and that is how they decided to use religion to turn people against science etc...

[Major Fuckup]

TehKiller, on 2 Jan 2009, 20:30, said:

Zero, on 2 Jan 2009, 5:33, said:

The fist part is correct, however, if the people leading the religion are offended and can get at LEAST 51% of the people to agree saying that "God is offended!" or "It is offensive to god!" then they, like company shareholders can do pretty much what they want.

But you see the difference is that in most issuess made by Catholics over the media actually dont even got 0.51% of support even in their own country. So thinking globally their influence means nothing as they dont got influence even over 1 person overseas

Quote

but do i dare say it fuckin mite as well religion is the root of all evil as i always say

its a dam good thing we ain't living like romans any more or the church would have killed us for this little indiscretion lol.

No, politics is root of evil and unfortunately religion is just another victim of it.

And so to the Roman comment....if we were living as romans there wouldnt be any church and instead people would believe in a dozen of gods

my point still stands if we didn't have religion their wouldn't be al qaeda, Israelis and Palestinians would be best friends the second world war would have been different. 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, Bosnia, Sri Lanka have taken place across lines of religious difference. there would be less sugar coated bull shit in politics they would say we want the oil we don't care about peace and stability in some random country we cant even pronounce. this ties in with another post about nudity and finally religion isn't a victim it directly affects and influence politics and let me hit you with a few quotations from the documentary "The Root of All Evil?"

"The time has come for people of reason to say: enough is enough. Religious faith discourages independent thought, it's divisive, and it's dangerous."

"The god of the Old Testament has got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it, petty, vindictive, unjust, unforgiving, racist, an ethnic-cleanser urging his people on to acts of genocide"

"But atheism is not a recipe for despair. I think the opposite. By disclaiming the idea of a next life, we can take more excitement in this one. The here and now is not something to be endured before eternal bliss or damnation. The here and now is all we have; an inspiration to make the most of it. So atheism is life-affirming, in a way religion can never be. Look around you. Nature demands our attention; begs us to explore; to question. Religion can provide only facile, ultimately unsatisfying answers. Science, in constantly seeking real explanations, reveals the true majesty of our world in all its complexity."

"For many people, part of growing up is killing off the virus of faith with a good strong dose of rational thinking. But if an individual doesn't succeed in shaking it off, his mind is stuck in a permanent state of infancy, and there is a real danger that he will infect the next generation."

now please tell me what you think about that?

[TehKiller]

Major Fuckup, on 2 Jan 2009, 14:40, said:

my point still stands if we didn't have religion their wouldn't be al qaeda, Israelis and Palestinians would be best friends the second world war would have been different. 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, Bosnia, Sri Lanka have taken place across lines of religious difference. there would be less sugar coated bull shit in politics they would say we want the oil we don't care about peace and stability in some random country we cant even pronounce. this ties in with another post about nudity and finally religion isn't a victim it directly affects and influence politics and let me hit you with a few quotations from the documentary "The Root of All Evil?"

Israel and Palestine conflicts aint about religion its about politics (cough UN forming Izrael by splitting Palestine into 2...), Al Qaeda and 9/11 would still happen as it isnt religion that taught them suicide bombings its CIA responsible for it, Bosnia....now this shows how much the west is ignorant what happened on the Balkans....no comment mate but that was extermination of every non-serb in Yugoslavia, N. Ireland is partly religion but mostly its really about the unification of Ireland (hence its politics)....

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"The time has come for people of reason to say: enough is enough. Religious faith discourages independent thought, it's divisive, and it's dangerous."

"The god of the Old Testament has got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it, petty, vindictive, unjust, unforgiving, racist, an ethnic-cleanser urging his people on to acts of genocide"

"But atheism is not a recipe for despair. I think the opposite. By disclaiming the idea of a next life, we can take more excitement in this one. The here and now is not something to be endured before eternal bliss or damnation. The here and now is all we have; an inspiration to make the most of it. So atheism is life-affirming, in a way religion can never be. Look around you. Nature demands our attention; begs us to explore; to question. Religion can provide only facile, ultimately unsatisfying answers. Science, in constantly seeking real explanations, reveals the true majesty of our world in all its complexity."

"For many people, part of growing up is killing off the virus of faith with a good strong dose of rational thinking. But if an individual doesn't succeed in shaking it off, his mind is stuck in a permanent state of infancy, and there is a real danger that he will infect the next generation."

now please tell me what you think about that?

My opinion about this.....whoever made a documentary is an insolate and ignorant fool who spent half of his life looking for answers on questions that nobody can answer. Other than promoting science I dont see any other meaning.

Edited by TehKiller, 02 January 2009 - 14:39.

[Nid]

Dauth, on 31 Dec 2008, 17:52, said:

I want to know if any Catholics on Fallout Studios are offended by the Hokey Cokey, and if they are going to wage war on Glasgow rangers fans for singing it?

No, I do not.
More to the point, I attended a catholic school as an infant, and the song was sung with us many a time.

I doubt many Catholics really knows of it's origins or roots, nor do they care.

Edited by Nidmeister, 02 January 2009 - 14:17.

[Zero]

Actually the Romans were the first....empire I guess you can say, to adopt Catholicism, also, they had their inquisition. Politics is not the root of all evil, and neither is religion. Unfortunately, every religion pushes for conflict (as EVERY religion states that they are THE ONE and everyone else is a sinner in one form or another). Also, about the comment on the .051%, I'm not talking about this event, however, in quite a few cases this HAS happened, hence the crusades.

I agree with you Major, Karl Marx said something similar. Why do I think this is correct? Well, a hot topic today is stem cell research; if we focused on it enough, we could come up with the cure to cancer or even get to the point where we can replace skin burnt off. What happens? The church rallies people, and it DOES have a reason, it is a sin to "kill." I disagree however, unlike the bible tells you, any rational being should be able to say that life (at least human life) only exists as soon as the being is conscious (in other words, born), however, since life exists the moment the egg is fertilized, we have a mass outcry against a wonderful science, and guess what....it's been hindered. Not only that, Galileo was almost killed because of his research, as was DaVinci; Copernicus WAS killed for looking into science. Why? The church was afraid of losing its power.

If religion didn't exist, WWII WOULD have been MUCH different, hell, Hitler might not even have been able to get enough support to win. And even if Hitler HAD won, many people might have spoken out against the holocaust. Without religion, science would blossom and the crusades would have had MUCH less support. Without religion- actually, see the movie Babylon A.D., that gives a pretty good example of what the church tries to do.

Now, TehKiller.....where do I start? Okay, first of all the Pal-Isr thing is very much based in religion, partially. The Muslims and Jews have had tense relationships for a LONG time. It was just stupid of the UN to drop Israel in between a load of countries that hated the Jews deeply, against their will. Now, then there is 911. A lot of terrorists who work for Bin Laden-like most terrorist in history- are ignorant people who actually believe in a Jihad, hell Osama may too! If religion were nonexistent, then he would not have even one 1/10th of the support he does! Why? Because he recruits using religion, not nationalism.

Oh, and a wise word to you guys, this is getting a little heavy on politics, remember, don't go too far.

[TehKiller]

Zero, on 2 Jan 2009, 17:28, said:

Actually the Romans were the first....empire I guess you can say, to adopt Catholicism, also, they had their inquisition. Politics is not the root of all evil, and neither is religion. Unfortunately, every religion pushes for conflict (as EVERY religion states that they are THE ONE and everyone else is a sinner in one form or another). Also, about the comment on the .051%, I'm not talking about this event, however, in quite a few cases this HAS happened, hence the crusades.

Christianity started in Judea which was part of Roman Empire hence it started there. Roman Empire was the first to persecute Christians, crusifying, stoning, torturing.....you get my point. Throughout history there has been only a single Catholic state and thats the Vatican (or Papal state if you want) and the Crusades were a bunch of wars to gain territory and a stronghold on the Middle East, religion was just a tool used to gain popularity and power (since the Pope was influenced by a number of leaders wanting to gain power there he called the Crusades and his influence was strong enough to popularise the war and for people to volountary go to war). Even a proof how the Crusades aint all that religious im gonna use a coastal city Zadar (which is in Croatia btw) which was conquered by the crusaders and Venice gained control over it. People that actually fought believed that they were doing a good thing but they were just pawns in a political business.

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If religion didn't exist, WWII WOULD have been MUCH different, hell, Hitler might not even have been able to get enough support to win. And even if Hitler HAD won, many people might have spoken out against the holocaust. Without religion, science would blossom and the crusades would have had MUCH less support. Without religion- actually, see the movie Babylon A.D., that gives a pretty good example of what the church tries to do.

Catholicism does not equal to National Socialism. The germans didnt obeyed Hitler cuz of their belief in God but because they trusted Hitler to make them the most powerfull nation in Europe and in the world. Even those who werent Nazis still obeyed Hitler because he freed them from the french opression.

Quote

Now, TehKiller.....where do I start? Okay, first of all the Pal-Isr thing is very much based in religion, partially. The Muslims and Jews have had tense relationships for a LONG time. It was just stupid of the UN to drop Israel in between a load of countries that hated the Jews deeply, against their will. Now, then there is 911. A lot of terrorists who work for Bin Laden-like most terrorist in history- are ignorant people who actually believe in a Jihad, hell Osama may too! If religion were nonexistent, then he would not have even one 1/10th of the support he does! Why? Because he recruits using religion, not nationalism.

Now your mixing up the Israeli Arab wars with the Israelo Palestinian conflicts. Israelo-Arab wars were religious I give you that but you cant blame any religious leader for starting em.Now at 9/11,same as Hitler you cant blame a whole nation and religion because of some charismatic demented fool. Though Osama maybe isnt that demented he did used religion to wage war against the west and western influence in Muslim countries at the Middle East and other Muslim countries nearby (Afghanistan and the Caucaus nations)

[Zero]

No, I meant that Rome was the first Empire or even independent state that I know of to adopt catholicism as the national religion. Also, the Early Holy Roman Empire was almost entirely Catholic. Religion, like I said earlier, is not evil by itself, it's the bastards at the top who run it. Unfortunately, however, the problem with religion is that it is so open to interpretation and vague through its use of examples that it is VERY easy to exploit it for a cause, especially when it has to do with another religion. If religion stayed where it should, as a private relationship that does not interfere with science or politics, it would be fine, however, it DOES interfere, and it does MUCH TOO OFTEN! After all, it's not the president's job to teach you about Jesus and religion; but it also isn't the job of the church to interfere with countries and politics, nor to tell us what science is right/ethical to research (that should be up to the scientists), although there are limits, those should be stated by political laws. In other words: Religion should only have to do with one's PRIVATE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD....PERIOD! Politics encompasses EVERYTHING else.

About Hitler: One of his main points was on religion, and that is where he drew a lot of hate against the Jews from (they still blamed them for killing Jesus over 1900 years before!). Not saying ALL of his support came from it, but quite a bit of it did. Religion can move the masses, and he used it pretty damn well.

Also, I'm not blaming the entire nation nor the entire religion because of either Hitler or BinLaden, I am, however, saying that they used religion to a great effect to do "evil" (put it in quotes because evil is objective....eh,). Osama does use religion EXPONENTIALLY more than Hitler, but that is besides the point. I think that the only way to EVER evolve to the ultimate level because:

-Religion (including "god") is a creation of man, "I think, therefore you are."

-If religion ceases to exists then we will no longer be able to exploit it for violent uses, although that niche MIGHT be filled by something else, I doubt it will EVER be 1/10th as powerful as religion, as nothing affects the masses the way religion does (if there is, let me know what it is, I would like to know)

-Religion is not necessary for the human race's survivable, science is, religion interferes with science in many ways (most of the times the leaders do, but sometimes-although relatively rarely- the scriptures themselves do). If religion interferes with science to the point where it hinders progress, for the better of mankind and its future, it must be abolished

-Finally, religion preaches that we are all pretty much inferior to one god, that is somewhat like...Social Darwinism? (although on a GREATLY reduced scale, if it turns out the pagans were actually right and we monotheists were wrong all along...sucks) If we want to move on, we must admit that we are absolute and that we have more influence and power than ANY "god" that might-which I doubt- exist (this is due to motivational purposes, and many other reasons). Also, when we DO meet the Vulcans and Kligons,it should be noted that it will also apply to them, as this applies to ALL sentient beings.

[BeefJeRKy]

Major Fuckup, on 2 Jan 2009, 8:40, said:

TehKiller, on 2 Jan 2009, 20:30, said:

Zero, on 2 Jan 2009, 5:33, said:

The fist part is correct, however, if the people leading the religion are offended and can get at LEAST 51% of the people to agree saying that "God is offended!" or "It is offensive to god!" then they, like company shareholders can do pretty much what they want.

But you see the difference is that in most issuess made by Catholics over the media actually dont even got 0.51% of support even in their own country. So thinking globally their influence means nothing as they dont got influence even over 1 person overseas

Quote

but do i dare say it fuckin mite as well religion is the root of all evil as i always say

its a dam good thing we ain't living like romans any more or the church would have killed us for this little indiscretion lol.

No, politics is root of evil and unfortunately religion is just another victim of it.

And so to the Roman comment....if we were living as romans there wouldnt be any church and instead people would believe in a dozen of gods

my point still stands if we didn't have religion their wouldn't be al qaeda, Israelis and Palestinians would be best friends the second world war would have been different. 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, Bosnia, Sri Lanka have taken place across lines of religious difference. there would be less sugar coated bull shit in politics they would say we want the oil we don't care about peace and stability in some random country we cant even pronounce. this ties in with another post about nudity and finally religion isn't a victim it directly affects and influence politics and let me hit you with a few quotations from the documentary "The Root of All Evil?"

"The time has come for people of reason to say: enough is enough. Religious faith discourages independent thought, it's divisive, and it's dangerous."

"The god of the Old Testament has got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it, petty, vindictive, unjust, unforgiving, racist, an ethnic-cleanser urging his people on to acts of genocide"

"But atheism is not a recipe for despair. I think the opposite. By disclaiming the idea of a next life, we can take more excitement in this one. The here and now is not something to be endured before eternal bliss or damnation. The here and now is all we have; an inspiration to make the most of it. So atheism is life-affirming, in a way religion can never be. Look around you. Nature demands our attention; begs us to explore; to question. Religion can provide only facile, ultimately unsatisfying answers. Science, in constantly seeking real explanations, reveals the true majesty of our world in all its complexity."

"For many people, part of growing up is killing off the virus of faith with a good strong dose of rational thinking. But if an individual doesn't succeed in shaking it off, his mind is stuck in a permanent state of infancy, and there is a real danger that he will infect the next generation."

now please tell me what you think about that?

Who says I have to believe in a next life to believe in God? I don't follow any particular religion but I believe in God as the creator of the universe.

[Destrukto]

I know more offensive stuff than that... like gay Jezus...

Edited by Destrukto, 03 January 2009 - 22:30.

[Zero]

Scope, on 2 Jan 2009, 21:56, said:

Who says I have to believe in a next life to believe in God? I don't follow any particular religion but I believe in God as the creator of the universe.

Pretty much EVERY religion ever made/in existence.

[CoLT]

You put your left fist in
You take your left fist out
You put your left fist in, and you shake it all about.

You do the Hokey Pokey and you turn around
You look and your fist's all brown.

Ohhhh Hokey poke the blokey
Ohhhh Hokey poke the blokey
Ohhhh Hokey poke the blokey

...

Definately nothing to be offended about when it comes to this song imo. There are far worse alternatives.

[Major Fuckup]

"My opinion about this.....whoever made a documentary is an insolate and ignorant fool who spent half of his life looking for answers on questions that nobody can answer. Other than promoting science I dont see any other meaning."

hey Tehkiller dosent religion do the same thing try to answer a question no one can answer? like what happens after you die? how man came to be? how the earth was made?

and scope its fine if you believe in a higher power but when one person believes in it hes in sane but when thousands of people believe in it its called religion and isnt jedi a full blown religion now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jediism

http://en.wikipedia....nsus_phenomenon

i was reading through them and it is funny as lol and you know what in a way jediism is the same as Christianity by teaching you to be good to you fellow man and whats right and wrong and what not its all the same crap XD

and about the pope he has been quite an arse hole lately by pissin off the gay community by saying that they are holding back human evolution or somethin and what makes the pope so good hes just another priest wearing a robe

[Zero]

HOLY CRAP! I did NOT know Jediism was considered an ACTUAL religion! THAT IS SO AWESOME! It is also probably the most scientific religion around (Aethism does NOT count, that is an ABSENCE of religion). SO DAMN FUNNY!!!!!!!!!

Major Fuckup, on 3 Jan 2009, 4:40, said:

how man came to be? how the earth was made?

Actually-unlike religion- science can pretty much already answer this! Also, religion leaves a LOT of blanks to fill in and no real answers, just VERY vague and general things you can-at best- guess at. The problem with ALL religions is that they are WAY to open to different interpretation. Also, religious people tend to pick and choose what to believe from their books, even if the "real" and "metaphorical" parts are only a sentence apart and describing the same action.

Quote

and about the pope he has been quite an arse hole lately by pissin off the gay community by saying that they are holding back human evolution or somethin and what makes the pope so good hes just another priest wearing a robe

I thought the church didn't believe in evolution....damn hypocrites.... MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!!!!!!! btw, how dare HE (who looks like Palpatine) insult gays!?! At least gays don't lead people against an entire group of people because of what kind of people they love (whether they choose to or not).

[TehKiller]

Major Fuckup, on 3 Jan 2009, 5:40, said:

hey Tehkiller dosent religion do the same thing try to answer a question no one can answer? like what happens after you die? how man came to be? how the earth was made?

Let me see....there havent been any tries in the last millenia...Religion doesnt try to answer those questions (at least Catholicism aint) because the whole point of religion is to have faith not answer to all questions.

Quote

btw, how dare HE (who looks like Palpatine) insult gays!?! At least gays don't lead people against an entire group of people because of what kind of people they love (whether they choose to or not).

Actually people are hypocrites...Gay people accused John Paul II. the same thing even though he never said anything negative about them. Now as for Benedict #....since he aint interesting and cool as JP, I just havent followed his comments so I got no clue what idiotic statements he's done

Edited by TehKiller, 03 January 2009 - 11:11.

[Major Fuckup]

well i watched the news about a while ago and the gay community ain't to happy now about from what i remember about what he said somethin along the lines of "gays are holding the human race back"

but when you think about the bible in my opinion about it is that its the biggest "harry potter" book of all time i don't think that any one knows who rote it its full of stories that in reality don't work and to think back in the day when people are killin each other with swords and pillaging villages i wouldn't mind a a great story to keep me breaking down mentally and havin hope in an superhuman being coming to save me and to stop all the violence. and to think that we descended from adam and eve that very incest and what happened to the garden of eden did god decide to send his holy ICBM to smite it off the face of earth as adam and eve disappeared some where? and if there was a merciful god why are their world hunger,disease and religious wars when is this god gonna come down from where ever and lay down the law or dose to get off on seeing us kill and mutilate each other? and as some people say god if every where? how could he be there and no where at the same time and how do i know he not right next to me inside my vodka watermelon keg?

[Zero]

TehKiller, on 3 Jan 2009, 12:07, said:

Major Fuckup, on 3 Jan 2009, 5:40, said:

hey Tehkiller dosent religion do the same thing try to answer a question no one can answer? like what happens after you die? how man came to be? how the earth was made?

Let me see....there havent been any tries in the last millenia...Religion doesnt try to answer those questions (at least Catholicism aint) because the whole point of religion is to have faith not answer to all questions.

So let me get this straight....the bible advocates ignorance!?! OH MY GOD! The bible wants us to die (as the only path left for the ignorant is death...). I KNEW IT WAS EVIL! KILL IT WITH FIRE!...DEMON FIRE!!

Quote

Quote

btw, how dare HE (who looks like Palpatine) insult gays!?! At least gays don't lead people against an entire group of people because of what kind of people they love (whether they choose to or not).

Actually people are hypocrites...Gay people accused John Paul II. the same thing even though he never said anything negative about them. Now as for Benedict #....since he aint interesting and cool as JP, I just havent followed his comments so I got no clue what idiotic statements he's done

Actually, if I remember correctly, they were accusing him more of not doing anything FOR the gays, not doing anything against them. The church looks down on gays/lesbians so I would be offended if a pope just sat by and let it happen while I tried to be Catholic and help their church survive.

Major Fuckup, on 3 Jan 2009, 14:01, said:

well i watched the news about a while ago and the gay community ain't to happy now about from what i remember about what he said somethin along the lines of "gays are holding the human race back"

but when you think about the bible in my opinion about it is that its the biggest "harry potter" book of all time i don't think that any one knows who rote it its full of stories that in reality don't work and to think back in the day when people are killin each other with swords and pillaging villages i wouldn't mind a a great story to keep me breaking down mentally and havin hope in an superhuman being coming to save me and to stop all the violence. and to think that we descended from adam and eve that very incest and what happened to the garden of eden did god decide to send his holy ICBM to smite it off the face of earth as adam and eve disappeared some where? and if there was a merciful god why are their world hunger,disease and religious wars when is this god gonna come down from where ever and lay down the law or dose to get off on seeing us kill and mutilate each other? and as some people say god if every where? how could he be there and no where at the same time and how do i know he not right next to me inside my vodka watermelon keg?

I agree completely. The bible is full of god-approved genocide (attempts at least), incest, murder, and war. Also, if you read about 25 pages, you'll find about fifteen contradictions (pick them out at random if you want to, they don't even have to be related). Worst of all, the bible shows that "god" deals with the devil, for fun (that guy who's name I can't remember who lost EVERYTHING over a bet...yeesh he's a bastard!) and also....well, there's too much for me to list...

[Destrukto]

^that guy was Job/Hiob.
And that part is full of lulz.

Apparenly Scott priests are pussies or they never heard of THIS!

Edited by Destrukto, 03 January 2009 - 22:31.

[Zero]

Destrukto, on 3 Jan 2009, 23:24, said:

^that guy was Job/Hiob.
And that part is full of lulz.

Thanks, forgot his name...anyway, I think that puts up a pretty good point, both about being a hypocrite, how "perfect" this so-called god is, and just how hard he seems to be fighting satan.... I think it'd be funny if their next bet was on who can down the most vodkas...... I say satan!

[Major Fuckup]

that guy "Job/Hiob" was he they guy in the bible that god said to satan that no matter what he did he would still stick with god so god went and killed his kids got insects to eat his crops and animals gave him cancer and all sorts of diseases just to prove to the devil he will still follow him?

you want to know somethin really funny about the religious teachers at St. Marks A.C.S it was a private school i went to it basically was an expensive day care centre but what was funny is that the christan studies teacher got convicted of child porn and peeping up girls dresses during class i think or that could just have been a rumor and the priest quit his job because he had depression and his son is a drug addict to top it all off.

[Zero]

Major Fuckup, on 3 Jan 2009, 23:06, said:

that guy "Job/Hiob" was he they guy in the bible that god said to satan that no matter what he did he would still stick with god so god went and killed his kids got insects to eat his crops and animals gave him cancer and all sorts of diseases just to prove to the devil he will still follow him?

YUP! The funniest part is that "benevolent," "all-loving" "god" did not apologize at ALL. Also...I wonder if it ever hit him that what he did was wrong? To top it all of, the guy got NOTHING!

Quote

you want to know somethin really funny about the religious teachers at St. Marks A.C.S it was a private school i went to it basically was an expensive day care centre but what was funny is that the christan studies teacher got convicted of child porn and peeping up girls dresses during class i think or that could just have been a rumor and the priest quit his job because he had depression and his son is a drug addict to top it all off.

Wow...fucked up.....

[Dauth]

Right, I can't even see the topic from where we are.