101 replies to this topic

[TehKiller]

So what would make this situation impossible: I buy a copy, instal it to both my comp and my laptop (crack it on the laptop) , borrow it to another mate with a laptop and he cracks and decide to play in LAN (well actually I do play UT on my comp and laptop over LAN).

Perfectly legal situation and everyone wins as the cracked copies dont got access to BNet so Blizzard cant be "hurt"

[Ion Cannon!]

No thats not legal. He is cracking YOUR copy. He has to crack HIS own copy for it to be legal.

The blizzard getting hurt is essentially in sales. Your situation deprives them of a sale.

[WNxMastrefubu]

thats so dumb, people are still gonna buy tho it so it doesnt really matter. noones gonna boycott SC2 for LAN

[Teron]

TehKiller, on 2 Jul 2009, 17:11, said:

So what would make this situation impossible: I buy a copy, instal it to both my comp and my laptop (crack it on the laptop) , borrow it to another mate with a laptop and he cracks and decide to play in LAN (well actually I do play UT on my comp and laptop over LAN).

Perfectly legal situation and everyone wins as the cracked copies dont got access to BNet so Blizzard cant be "hurt"

That's not legal and one of the reasons why Blizzard did decide to include no LAN so that persons like you just don't spread a cracked version around their friends. Face it, everytime when a LAN party is made, someone brings a legit copy of a game and the others just crack it.

[KiraSama]

Teron, on 2 Jul 2009, 21:33, said:

That's not legal and one of the reasons why Blizzard did decide to include no LAN so that persons like you just don't spread a cracked version around their friends. Face it, everytime when a LAN party is made, someone brings a legit copy of a game and the others just crack it.

Ion Cannon!, on 2 Jul 2009, 19:53, said:

No thats not legal. He is cracking YOUR copy. He has to crack HIS own copy for it to be legal.

The blizzard getting hurt is essentially in sales. Your situation deprives them of a sale.

I am kinda unsure if thats illegal or not, but sounds like only the owner of the car can drive it and only the owner of the house can live inside

[D.K.]

@Ion Cannon: Thing is - It is more than legal. At least it is here. Law is a plothole size of a** of a porno star that just got... Well, you get it. And you really can do everything TehKiller said, I am more than sure - My godfather is police inspector, and he said that there is nothing they could do. I can call cops, and do exactly everything already written here, and they couldn't even piss on me. So, it would be wise to take in account differences in each country's law system.

[Ion Cannon!]

D.K., on 2 Jul 2009, 21:00, said:

@Ion Cannon: Thing is - It is more than legal. At least it is here. Law is a plothole size of a** of a porno star that just got... Well, you get it. And you really can do everything TehKiller said, I am more than sure - My godfather is police inspector, and he said that there is nothing they could do. I can call cops, and do exactly everything already written here, and they couldn't even piss on me. So, it would be wise to take in account differences in each country's law system.

If thats true thats a huge loophole then.

By they cannot do anything he may have just meant they wouldn't do anything. Plenty of things over here are illegal but the police won't do much about it, they have more important things to do.

[D.K.]

That's what I meant at the first moment, too. But asking him again, he answered me that they are powerless there. And don't be surprised, our law is made not for people, but for politicians who want to protect themselves. What happens to national industry and people is the currently the lowest priority. No wonder we'll end up being the country of the third world. Though that doesn't mean I don't support and endorse piracy. Au contraire, I wish to spread even more, so long we have outrageously inhuman high prices for media of all kind.

[Libains]

Ion Cannon!, on 2 Jul 2009, 21:37, said:

D.K., on 2 Jul 2009, 21:00, said:

@Ion Cannon: Thing is - It is more than legal. At least it is here. Law is a plothole size of a** of a porno star that just got... Well, you get it. And you really can do everything TehKiller said, I am more than sure - My godfather is police inspector, and he said that there is nothing they could do. I can call cops, and do exactly everything already written here, and they couldn't even piss on me. So, it would be wise to take in account differences in each country's law system.

If thats true thats a huge loophole then.

By they cannot do anything he may have just meant they wouldn't do anything. Plenty of things over here are illegal but the police won't do much about it, they have more important things to do.

There's so much in the way of interpreting the law it's scary, and so many loopholes in almost any system that it is equally as scary. The police are supposed to deal with any breach in the law - but there are two things they really work on: What the public really need (murder/robbery/similar), and what makes them money (catching speeders etc). The small illegal things that people do which earn cops no money, and nobody cares about - why would they really bother breaking up LAN parties and checking each PC?

That said, it is illegal in the majority of first-world countries, as you are only allowed to perform cracks to secure the investment you originally put in (in essence if you bought the game). If you didn't buy the game, you have nothing to secure/protect/backup. Frankly, this is a smart move by Blizzard which isn't going to be as bad for them as putting in DRM (which damages a game's reputation so much it's scary), but will make sure that people buy the game. In this day and age when 95% of people have a reasonable internet connection, LAN is slowly becoming a defunct item in games.

[TehKiller]

AJ, on 2 Jul 2009, 22:39, said:

Ion Cannon!, on 2 Jul 2009, 21:37, said:

D.K., on 2 Jul 2009, 21:00, said:

@Ion Cannon: Thing is - It is more than legal. At least it is here. Law is a plothole size of a** of a porno star that just got... Well, you get it. And you really can do everything TehKiller said, I am more than sure - My godfather is police inspector, and he said that there is nothing they could do. I can call cops, and do exactly everything already written here, and they couldn't even piss on me. So, it would be wise to take in account differences in each country's law system.

If thats true thats a huge loophole then.

By they cannot do anything he may have just meant they wouldn't do anything. Plenty of things over here are illegal but the police won't do much about it, they have more important things to do.

There's so much in the way of interpreting the law it's scary, and so many loopholes in almost any system that it is equally as scary. The police are supposed to deal with any breach in the law - but there are two things they really work on: What the public really need (murder/robbery/similar), and what makes them money (catching speeders etc). The small illegal things that people do which earn cops no money, and nobody cares about - why would they really bother breaking up LAN parties and checking each PC?

That said, it is illegal in the majority of first-world countries, as you are only allowed to perform cracks to secure the investment you originally put in (in essence if you bought the game). If you didn't buy the game, you have nothing to secure/protect/backup. Frankly, this is a smart move by Blizzard which isn't going to be as bad for them as putting in DRM (which damages a game's reputation so much it's scary), but will make sure that people buy the game. In this day and age when 95% of people have a reasonable internet connection, LAN is slowly becoming a defunct item in games.

Well welcome to the Balkans where many of your laws are non-existant here (and I'm happy we dont got a bunch of your ridicilous laws)...but unfortunately the ruling party folds to all the idiotic laws which the EU demands so I dont think it will take too long till this situation becomes illegal

Edited by TehKiller, 03 July 2009 - 13:04.

[D.K.]

Don't worry, it won't. If they try to do that, they'll cause a countereffect. There will be even more piracy than ever.

[Teron]

TehKiller, on 3 Jul 2009, 15:02, said:

AJ, on 2 Jul 2009, 22:39, said:

Ion Cannon!, on 2 Jul 2009, 21:37, said:

D.K., on 2 Jul 2009, 21:00, said:

@Ion Cannon: Thing is - It is more than legal. At least it is here. Law is a plothole size of a** of a porno star that just got... Well, you get it. And you really can do everything TehKiller said, I am more than sure - My godfather is police inspector, and he said that there is nothing they could do. I can call cops, and do exactly everything already written here, and they couldn't even piss on me. So, it would be wise to take in account differences in each country's law system.

If thats true thats a huge loophole then.

By they cannot do anything he may have just meant they wouldn't do anything. Plenty of things over here are illegal but the police won't do much about it, they have more important things to do.

There's so much in the way of interpreting the law it's scary, and so many loopholes in almost any system that it is equally as scary. The police are supposed to deal with any breach in the law - but there are two things they really work on: What the public really need (murder/robbery/similar), and what makes them money (catching speeders etc). The small illegal things that people do which earn cops no money, and nobody cares about - why would they really bother breaking up LAN parties and checking each PC?

That said, it is illegal in the majority of first-world countries, as you are only allowed to perform cracks to secure the investment you originally put in (in essence if you bought the game). If you didn't buy the game, you have nothing to secure/protect/backup. Frankly, this is a smart move by Blizzard which isn't going to be as bad for them as putting in DRM (which damages a game's reputation so much it's scary), but will make sure that people buy the game. In this day and age when 95% of people have a reasonable internet connection, LAN is slowly becoming a defunct item in games.

Well welcome to the Balkans where many of your laws are non-existant here (and I'm happy we dont got a bunch of your ridicilous laws)...but unfortunately the ruling party folds to all the idiotic laws which the EU demands so I dont think it will take too long till this situation becomes illegal

Oh sure, the EU is just a bunch of jerks which makes idiotic laws YOU poor little one have to follow, because your country would be in much better condition without it. Even if the laws are to protect companies where people earn their money. Pease, go on

[CommanderJB]

It's StarCraft II or the lock, folks.

[CodeCat]

An argument I keep seeing here is 'you don't need LAN because there's battle.net'. Well what if battle.net goes down? Maybe you say 'it won't go down' but you don't know that. There is no guarantee anywhere. Game developers have taken online game services down before, just look at what EA did with Westwood's games. All we have is their word, but how much is that worth? For me this is the same argument as what I have against DRM: depending on the good will of and trust in the big corporations. To believe that they will do what they say they do, while in at least half the cases they don't, because they have no incentive and no legal obligation to.

The game developers are holding the software ransom and can do whatever they want to something YOU own, after you gave them your money. They can decide to cut internet play and guess what, your multiplayer days are over. It is for similar reasons that free software such as Linux is being developed. It is made by and for people who don't want to depend on the whims of some company that decides to screw them over when they feel like it. They want to be in control of the software they use, and rightly so. After all it's their computer, they have the right to get it to do what they want it to do. Intentionally adding limitations to software, whether it's copy protection, DRM or removing LAN play, serves no purpose other than to reduce the control the user has over their computers and their software. And I think it's dispicable.

Edited by CodeCat, 04 July 2009 - 17:55.

[D.K.]

So true. So fucking true.

If I lived in Netherlands, I'd come to your house right away, and kiss you in your... well, you get it. There is just so much bloody truth in here.

Edited by D.K., 05 July 2009 - 09:32.

[RaiDK]

The stupid thing is that any form of boycott is going to have people downloading it as an alternative, which really doesn't prove anything.

It just proves people are stingy.

It'd be like boycotting Bioshock because it didn't have multiplayer, then modding in your own multiplayer.

[Teron]

CodeCat, on 4 Jul 2009, 19:53, said:

An argument I keep seeing here is 'you don't need LAN because there's battle.net'. Well what if battle.net goes down? Maybe you say 'it won't go down' but you don't know that. There is no guarantee anywhere. Game developers have taken online game services down before, just look at what EA did with Westwood's games. All we have is their word, but how much is that worth? For me this is the same argument as what I have against DRM: depending on the good will of and trust in the big corporations. To believe that they will do what they say they do, while in at least half the cases they don't, because they have no incentive and no legal obligation to.

The game developers are holding the software ransom and can do whatever they want to something YOU own, after you gave them your money. They can decide to cut internet play and guess what, your multiplayer days are over. It is for similar reasons that free software such as Linux is being developed. It is made by and for people who don't want to depend on the whims of some company that decides to screw them over when they feel like it. They want to be in control of the software they use, and rightly so. After all it's their computer, they have the right to get it to do what they want it to do. Intentionally adding limitations to software, whether it's copy protection, DRM or removing LAN play, serves no purpose other than to reduce the control the user has over their computers and their software. And I think it's dispicable.

While I see your point and partly agree with it, Blizzard doesn't look like to be at the step of closing for the next ten years. And the BattleNet is something they had since Warcraft II, so they won't remove it since all of their games run on it. And it is completely free for anyone! Battlenet made them what they are today.

Of course, you cannot be 100% sure about it, but seeing it this way you could also argue: What if your country will decide to block the internet connection to the battlenet servers, because of political incorrectness of some games yet to come. With high probability, it won't happen but a chance exists.

And when comparing it to free software:
No one forces you to actually buy their games. It's your free choice, instead of having an already installed version of MS Software/Mac OS on your newly bought pc.
And sorry for Blizzard trying to make money, but they have pay checks to pay and to ensure to be able to do so, Blizzard has to do something to prevent piracy as good as they can. In fact, you should feel lucky that they try to make it as comfortable as it is possible. DRM is a pain and a clearly NO-THANK YOU for many gamers, because you bought the game and couldn't even install it without knowing it before trying!

Blizzard doesn't worry much about a single person pirating it, but about third party companies (which hire specialists), offering possibilities to play with pirated versions (ICCup for example)!

Besides, the same argument goes for all steam accounts, where you buy the software and can only download it, which means: No CD/DVD and "loosing" the game again, when the company becomes broken.

"Removing" LAN is a better way to prevent a "rerun" of 25kk $ of missing income (like Starcraft 1 had), not only for Blizzard, but also a more comfortable way for the customers, sparing them with DRM like EA did and failed.

Edited by Teron, 05 July 2009 - 13:38.

[Wizard]

Quote

It has been known for quite a bit of time that Starcraft II will not be featuring pure Local Area Network multiplayer games, with Blizzard saying that it aims to eliminate LAN play, thus routing all the multiplayer gaming through a beefed up Battle.net.

But now, several statements from Blizzard people point the way to the possibility that a LAN-like mode might be implemented, with players able to set up fast a local connection after they log into Battle.net in order to authenticate.

In an interview conducted at BlizzCon, Greg Canessa told Shacknews that “Maintaining a connection with Battle.net, I don't know if it's once or periodically, but then also having a peer-to-peer connection between players to facilitate a very low-ping, high-bandwidth connection... those are the things that we're working on.” He added that “We really wanted to bring all these players together and keep them in the same pool, and make everything work, so your achievements work, your friends list works, everything just works correctly, as opposed to having two separated ways to play.”

Apparently, Starcraft II will allow players to get into the single player campaign using a so-called “guest account,” which will be offline and will not need a connection to Battle.net. But the developers are very determined to integrate as much information about the player as possible in their online profile, allowing them to match their skills in multiplayer games with similarly capable players and also to show off their achievements easily.

A lot of pieces of news regarding Starcraft II came out of BlizzCon. Some players were outraged to hear that Blizzard was planning to allow maps to be sold by mod makers for a fee, while other players were delighted to hear that the editor included in the game was powerful enough to create role-playing experiences and FPS games.

Source

[KiraSama]

with that and the anounce of what the editor is capable its making me want starcraft 2 again

[TehKiller]

So whats the damn difference....you still need to have an internet connection to play a LAN game and be logged onto Bnet.

All i got is the word FAJL in that department

[Kichō]

TehKiller, on 26 Aug 2009, 14:17, said:

So whats the damn difference....you still need to have an internet connection to play a LAN game and be logged onto Bnet.

All i got is the word FAJL in that department

Exactly what I was thinking, its not really LAN seeing as you have to be logged in...

[Teron]

Pure offline LAN is no good idea, at least not anymore!

Services such as Haofang and Garena abuse offline LAN to make millions of dollars in revenue off of intellectual property they do not own, all the while laughing in the face of Blizzard, since they cannot do anything about it. And since regular LAN is a legitimate part of products such as StarCraft and WarCraft III, Blizzard has no legal grounds on which it can prevent these services from continuing their operations.

Sadly, Internet-authenticated LAN is about as best as we can hope for, given the circumstances. And as already said, it could be worse.
To quote myself again:

'Teron' said:

DRM is a pain and a clearly NO-THANK YOU for many gamers, because you bought the game and couldn't even install it without knowing it before trying!

[CJ]

DRM is a failure, it's supposed to be against piracy, but those who have pirated copies doesn't have it's limitations...

[The Wandering Jew]

Well, there are some cases that LAN is advantageous over Battle.net, like poor internet connection.

Anywhoo, if Blizzard is intent on anti-piracy, why not make the legit software be "installable" by, let's say, 4 times?

[RaiDK]

Because that's been tried and proved FAIJL?

Also, why wouldn't a legit user have a Bnet account?