95 replies to this topic

[Commander Abs]

cozmoisme, on 2 Jun 2007, 09:07, said:

first off let keep politics out of this ( thats why the deep end was shut)

Discussing religion without politics is like discussing cars without wheels. Especially since this topic has focused somewhat on Islamic faith (which IS the government rule in some cases) I can't see any problem with me mentioning the word 'government'. More importantly, if you're really concerned about me politicising this, the point of my statement was the halleucination of Democracy and it's *real* meaning, which in my opinion is false, but that gets into something off-topic, but still rather philosophical,, especially when the definition of common words and political systems comes into question. Perhaps read more into my statement before casting such a blanket statement onto my comments.

EDIT: On an aside, in terms of forums, 'Deep end' etc,,, there's a very big difference between 'Discussing politics' and 'Discussing political issues'. I'm doing the former.

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second of all the church only has power over its followers, i do nothing the catholic church says, i use condoms, i dont go t mass most days.

Precisely my point. The church only needs absolute control over it's followers. With them and the sway at much higher levels they maintain, they need not worry about even a majority who don't follow, in this example, a Christian way, who don't go to church, and who don't maintain that power. If you really believe that the church *doesn't* hold this power, ask yourself this. Why is homosexual unity outlawed in most (USA) states? The official government-applicable recognition of a unified couple does not enter the realm of christianity, yet it is *generally* (very important word to read there) those of christian faith or of a lesser education who see it as a bad thing, despite having no religious meaning whatsoever. This begs further question of what's morale, whats right and wrong, and what right others have to impose *their* way of life on others. This is *not* a political question,, this is very rooted in our everyday life and not conscious decisions.

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the christian church has as much power over its followers as the islam does over its, maybe less since there are all the different denomnations with the differnt teachings and worship styles.. but i grant you there are many more christians than muslims in the western world. the promblem arises when the leader of sed contry *America* is devoted to any of these religions, but i wont go on since that is politics again.

Once again, it brings about another question (a definition of life if you will, which is always rather philosophical) which is what defines a conflict of interest as opposed to what's best for a nation. A *true* democratic leader would have no religion, no leadership persuasion, heck, no favourite food. They would indeed be a very boring person. However, in human's ever persistant want to have something to follow,, to guide them through life, a person with no religion, no moral guidelines whatsoever, is a poor choice of leader (apparently). People would like to be led by someone who can stand up and say 'This particular act is wrong'.

In a nation which lives by, say, the rule of 'Survival of the fittest', it may be seen as right that an old lady gets killed for the money in her purse, because she is no longer able to defend herself, and is no longer 'The fittest',, whether fitness be physical prowess or the ability to charm others into doing their service and thus, protecting them.

To draw this into the current world, Islam would fight against those who offend them, whereas Christians would turn a blind eye, and find some way to work around or forget the problem existed. In a 'Survival of the Fittest' world, Christians would appear to be weak, as opposed to the strong convictions of a muslim. But I digress, I'm not here to compare the strengths of one religious group to another, however it's potentially an answer to why it's 'ok' to poke fun at christianity, but not at other religions, as the op said.

Edited by Commander Abs, 02 June 2007 - 16:35.

[Cozmo]

the problem with that is that the qur'an teaches peace much like the bible, there is only one instance however when muhammad led a force to take control of, i think, Mecca (correct me if im wrong) but this does not underlay the fact that it teaches peace, thinking about it islam and christianity, the bare bones are essenaly the same, and it is only the extremeists, who dont follow their religion to it full extent that are the agressive party, not islam as a whole.

[Whitey]

Which has nothing to do with the topic. Why can others get all PO'd about anyone making a joke about them, but Jesus can be photoshopped into Mr. Clean and nobody cares about it.

I'm not tolerant, but if I express my intolerence, I am shunned.

[Cozmo]

because christians didn't make a scene over it.

[Golan]

Just because someone complains about a misbehaviour doesn´t make things that noone complains about justified. And vice versa, as I thinks satire shouldn´t be limited.

Edited by Golan, 02 June 2007 - 18:43.

[Cozmo]

im not saying its justified im saying that islam is real touchy ATM, im not saying insulting either religion is in any way jusified, all im saying is that christianity seems to just ignore it, which i think takes more devotion adn understanding of you faith, than just going on an angry march. thats just my opinon

[Rumpullpus]

cozmoisme, on 2 Jun 2007, 08:59, said:

the problem is that christianity is 100% dominant in the usa (im not american) and as far as i know it is even taught in schools. thats the problem i think. also i feel a person needs to discover a religion on their own and it shoulden't be forced upon them.



oh and the roman catholic church bans all contraception execpt the " rythem theory. if you dont know what is look it up. but belive me it is not reliable.

Christanity is dominant in America thats true but its far from 100%.
im sure that since you dont live in america you hear alot of stuff like what youve stated but really its nothing like it at all.
infact America probably has the highest concentration of religous buildings in its cities (chruchs, mosques ect..) then anywhere else in the world (plz for the love of god dont quote me on that because i also wouldnt be suprised to be wrong XD)

religon in US schools is pritty much no existent even though it is alowed to pray in school (only quietly) and hold religous gatherings on school grounds (only after school hours)

infact i think religous tolerance is one of the few things i think America is doing better then Europe on.

and the the rythem theory is probably the stupidest thing you could do, the catholic church can lick my ass
theres nothing wrong with condoms.

Edited by Rumpullpus, 03 June 2007 - 02:22.

[AllStarZ]

Rumpullpus, on 2 Jun 2007, 22:20, said:

infact i think religous tolerance is one of the few things i think America is doing better then Europe on.

Define religious tolerance. Laws, attitudes?

You also seem to forget that laws vary per state.

[Rumpullpus]

yea but i think the laws on religon and school are actually national laws not state laws (i could be wrong though).

i see religious tolerance as people in america are more accepting of other peoples religon and the different ways they practice it even though they may not agree.
and also i think the laws protect the religons better.

[AllStarZ]

Laws protect racism better?

Lets say this. A Muslim who has passed citizenship tests has gone to look for work in a company. His record is completely clear, nothing bad on it. He submits a resume.

But, the employer can overlook him. Maybe out of actual concern or pure racism, he does not pay attention to the resume. And if he calls him in, he can choose not to employ him, and offer a number of reasons why which are not racist.

[Whitey]

But the federal government oblegates him to hire the Muslim over say a Christian because of crap like Affirmitive Action in the work world.

[AllStarZ]

But he has a right not to hire him if he does not meet qualifications. He can seize upon foreign education as an excuse, and employers do, in the States and Canada.

Edited by AllStarZ, 03 June 2007 - 08:14.

[Areze]

Vaughan, on 2 Jun 2007, 11:51, said:

Cozmoisme, I hate to sound rude, but if you don't live in america, then please do not assume what you hear is true.
You can't say that since Bush is a Christian, that everyone in America is.

Christianity is NOT 100% dominant in America, you can get expelled from school for bringing a Bible, teachers are fired for disagreeing with the "Theory" of Evolution, students are given negative scores for refusing to state that the "Theory" is quite Scientific Fact. Reading a Bible in school, during class or not, is nearly against the very rules.

Teachers teach their classes the "folly and foolishness" of Christianity, making every attempt to prove that there is no God, you'll be looked down upon and given bad grades for disagreeing.

You can't assume what you hear is true, especially if you don't even live in America.

~V.

I dunno about your school, but mine doesn't give a high flying fuck about religion. I see people wearing crosses, wearing shawls, etc. etc. As long as it doesn't interfere with the lesson, they say "Carry on."

[Rumpullpus]

AllStarZ, on 3 Jun 2007, 05:18, said:

Laws protect racism better?

errr i dont know where you got that because i didnt say it XD
you cant have a perfect law that protects racism because the law in itself would be racsist.

[Whitey]

My school gives a flying fuck, but really only about Christianity.

But no, you can't bring a Bible, and they must teach evolution. they cannot teach religion and can only point out flaws in it really. It bugs me.

[Areze]

We will never understand the mental workings of the school system.


On topic: Every religion is not better then the other, they are equal. If they make fun of Christianity, We have reason to do it back. No Christens are superior to Muslims and no Muslims are superior to Christians. Same with the Jews. If you don't like it, cry me a river.

[Soul]

AllStarZ, on 3 Jun 2007, 04:10, said:

But he has a right not to hire him if he does not meet qualifications. He can seize upon foreign education as an excuse, and employers do, in the States and Canada.

Which is total BS, cause then it makes getting a University degree in a foreign country useless if they come over here or the US for a job.

[Cozmo]

Solo Wing, on 3 Jun 2007, 19:23, said:

My school gives a flying fuck, but really only about Christianity.

But no, you can't bring a Bible, and they must teach evolution. they cannot teach religion and can only point out flaws in it really. It bugs me.

seriously! RS in our school is learning about the relgion and knwoing its meanings and sybolism etc and debating about its moral/ ethical issues and stuff.

[Rumpullpus]

^

we dont have anything like that

[Cozmo]

RS at GCSE is really fun over here and at A-level we get to study the matrix films in depth too.

[Thinker]

Prophet of the Pimps, on 29 May 2007, 10:21, said:

Either ban all
or allow them all to do what the want to make their penis look bigger.

Also when it comes to "Communal sensitivity" UK s the worse. Its retarded that Muslims can protest in front of a Church and have obscene saying about the pope but if a Christian said the same things about the prophet in front of a mosque would be sent to jail. Double fucking standards are retarded. Historical injustices cant justify Reverse oppression.

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If christians not take any offence , thats their problem , if we are sensitive on our religion and try to protect it and tell others must be respect to our religion ; its our choice , other religious peoples either can tolerance this or not , but most of us will not tolerance againist insults.

They take offence but blowing people up to make that offence is not something the Christian excel at.

Most of the time i am tolerant but on this point i absolutely hate the Islamic community for its double standards. Thats right i used the word HATE. We had a Muslim Artist in India making nude painting of Hindu goddess the guy barely got into trouble but if a Hindu had painted Mohamed naked (forget naked if he would have just made a illustration of Mohamed as a normal guy) he would have have had his head cut off/blown up/shot. Point being that Muslims are getting away with a lot of crap that people from other community would not have been able to just because they use the excuse of extremist.

Leatherneck, on 29 May 2007, 22:17, said:

Like I said, I have and I've been punished for it...

Hell, even our school: you are not supposed to represent your religion. I nearly get in trouble in all 8 of my classes for wearing a necklace with a silver cross with a Jesus head on it. And yet, there are some 20 or so Muslim women that wear a shawl (that's the right term, right?) over their head the entire day.

Both are ways of claiming religion, but of course, only one is said to be wrong.

I just don't get it, not at all. Nobody accepts it when I put out such ideas, but they all agree...

Prophet of the Pimps, on 30 May 2007, 07:15, said:

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And nobody prevent Buddhists to not warn that artist who did this painting .

How did buddha get involved here? You do know that Buddhism and Hinduism are two different religion?

And Hindus did protest but not by threatening means like blowing him up or threatening to decapitate his head. they went to court and did everything in a civil manner.

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That shows how much we respect to our holy figures , nobody can't judge this .

It was an illustration of double standards. Muslims have been getting away with being extremist in other nations but if the same act done by someone else would result in far more harsher consequences for that non Muslim person. Muslims should just get out of their Victim Complex mentality because right now they are no the Victims and for the most part it is the majority that is suffering.

Why would you use the word "Hate" to describe your feelings towards the islamic community. There not all the same. Some may be extremist but thats there belief so you will probably never change there mind. I am not telling you to respect there belief in "killing the infedel"in any way some of them dont have a choice and are turned into the "terroist" at a young age since that is all they see around them is no hope and people dieng they turn easily and become extremist in there beliefs . Also some are sent to camps at a young age to be brain washed and trained to kill. All muslims dont have that "Victim Complex mentality" like you say prophet. Also defileing making fun of or putting down another religion\race is wrong and immoral and doing it makes society dislike you. Also muslims in there own countries are treated like "shit" becuase of there rulers and are racially attacked in some countries and I have seen muslims get equal treatment with the law just as anyone would. So dont give me that horse shit that they get special treatment just becuase of "some incedents" other people get away with things to muslims aren't the only ones.

Edited by thinker, 07 June 2007 - 18:19.