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No, there's been no patch. I imagine you're all just horrible shots . (Messing around with the horrible shots part guys ).
Edited by Kalo, 06 February 2010 - 13:30.

Those of you that didn't see it : http://www.ultimateprestige.com/

/slap to MW2 I imagine. I am also quite happy to see the MEC shotgun since it was my favorite in the first game. Also, where the fuck is the REAL APC for the Russians? Why do they just get a Mobile AA Platform...?

http://www.fileplay.net/keys MORE BETA KEYS GOGOGOGOGOGO!

Kalo, on 8 Feb 2010, 4:19, said:

Ooo awesome image resource for sig making

why exactly can you choose to fill in your xbl (MW) account?

Camille, on 8 Feb 2010, 13:31, said:

Steal away MW fanbois.

OK. This is gonna be a biggie.

The first impression is good. The game is good fun, and it could be a lot worse for a beta. Sniping is fun, most things seem relatively balanced, and most importantly, my biggest fear of vehicles dominating personnel is laid to rest.

Since the game is most inevitably compared to MW2 in general that's exactly what I'm going to compare it to. Though the game is heavily superior to MW2 in terms of team-ness and strategic play, it is also heavily inferior in terms of being a shooter much like you can't call TF2 a shooter either. This si because of several design flaws and decisions which seriously detract from its shooter qualities. The following is everything I've found to be wrong with the game so far (I'm going to list every tiny bit for the moment):

-There is no strafe run, nor a crouch hold button, which means that movement is really fiddly. Worse, you can't prone, so if you want to somehow take cover you need to keep the crouch button depressed.
-It's not particularly clear when you kill someone. It displays this tiny text on the bottom of your HUD instead of giving you clear sign you've killed someone. This is made worse by the fact you can't judge very well when you should have killed something.
-The melee delay is rather long before it connects, even without lag.
-The game can't distinguish between mousewheelup and mousewheeldown in the control screen. This is rather annoying because it means you can't bind both melee and weapon switch to it.
-There is no appreciable ADS lookscale variable: when you ADS or zoom in, the relative mouse sensitivity is increased tremendously. This makes using a high mouse sensitivity very irritating and snipers needlessly fiddly (especially since you can't hold your breath). They should input some ADS lookscale to provide the same tangential length regardless of zoom, since the tiniest movement sends a sniper's scope view all across the map.
-Weapons seem to do random damage within certain bounds. I.e. at range l=x a weapon may do any damage in an interval of [a,b]. Random damage is lame.
-You can't reload cancel by sprinting or pressing reload again. You can only do it by knifing, which means there's no quick way to abort a reload.
-The FoV is tiny. Like MW2 this should be increased significantly.
-Heli controls suck absolute donkey balls. Really, couldn't they just implement some system that isn't unnecessarily complicated.
-The announcer speaks somewhat softly, or worse, in a language I don't understand a bloody word of.
-Shooting physics are unnecessarily fiddly. The weapons aren't hitscan and even experience bullet drop, and ADS'ing weapons doesn't make them perfectly accurate. That's complete overkill in terms of limiting accuracy. They should eliminate at least one of those, perferably ADS inaccuracy or bullet drop.
-TransIn animations into scopes still consist of the screen just fading to dark, which looks poor.
-Bolt-action sniper rifles really should be a two-hit-kill regardless of where you hit them.
-I'm not sure if there actually is a killcam but if there is it doesn't really show the kill, it seems. It just shows your killer. The game could benefit from a killcam.
-The map they provided really sucks. The attackers have to make their way through a massive bottleneck which makes attacker gameplay generally speaking slow and stagnant. Unles you snipe from a cliff or get into a vehicle you don't have much of a chance against anything.
-I don't know exactly what happened, but once as an attacker, while parachuting, I fell straight down and got killed, giving me a -10 and a "suicide" note. I hadn't even touched the keyboard though. Whatever happened, it was really lame and shouldn't be possible.
-The screen shakes when explosive ordnance is being fired near you. This is a priority removal, and a major design flaw.
-The game uses DamageViewKick, which makes you flinch away when you're hit. This is a major, almost game-breaking flaw also present in MW2 which is enough to ruin most of the foot-mobile combat system if left untreated.
-You can get shellshocked if things explode near you. Realistic as it might be this is really unnecessary and doesn't really fit in with gameplay - another flaw also present in MW2.
-The game is quite content to switch your team around all the time without giving you a chance to go back. I tended to find myself switching teams every other spawn after a while which really takes away any sense of accomplishment you may get, and seriously detracts from succesful gameplay.

Concluding, I'd say the game is definitely fun but seriously NEEDS a big number of changes to call itself a shooter. A number of critical issues about the game limit the depth of the shooter gameplay which detracts from the fun you can have outside of a vehicle. I'd call it fun but as it is it is in my opinion inferior to MW2 in terms of gameplay.
Edited by Chyros, 08 February 2010 - 19:34.

How is damageviewkick a flaw? It's the "You're getting shot, maybe you should fucking do something about it?" Why would you want to reload cancel...? The Heli controls do suck, but for anyone who's played BF2 it's probably for the best. Who here remembers Helicopters doing barrel rolls to avoid missiles? The weapons aren't hit scan? I really laughed at this bro...I'm sorry but what? If they were I'm pretty positive sniping would be absolutely ridiculous and it'd frustrate players to no end. Also, you falling in the parachute or rather without one : It happens. I laugh every time it happens to me .
No strafe run? Did that even exist in MW2? And how does shellshock not fit in with gameplay? I mean you really don't go as far as to explain why it does not, just that it doesn't. Or at least it doesn't fit with your game play .

To me it sounds like you're looking for a game BESIDES Battlefield Bad Company 2, I'm pretty sure they don't consider the whole screenshake a "flaw" but an immersion factor. While it may not be cool for you I know for a fact lots of players love it. Also, maybe you should aim for the head as a sniper rather then being used to Stopping Power?


But being an absolute cockfaggot aside on my part (MY Part I am definitely not calling you that.) Do you have it for PC? and do you have a Microphone and maybe want to play sometime?
Edited by Kalo, 08 February 2010 - 19:55.

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NO IT REALLY DOESNT. NOT MW2.

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Do you not see the movement of the weapon to the centre of the screen?

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Quite a strong statement there, its better than the arcadey type shooter like MW2 where you feel as though you're just floating through the map shooting with insta-hit teleporting bullets.

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Im sorry but you've got to be blind to not see the text come up at the bottom of the screen, with the sound indicating you've killed someone. Its so much better than having half you're screen taken up (yes, half of it, with the transition fade of the text from the top to the center) by "GOOD GOING, YOU TOTALLY KILLED SOMEONE.

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No it really isnt, its a nice effect and you learn how to compensate for it after a few times.

This is not MW2, its battlefield and as a battlefield game it fits in perfectly, if you cant compensate a few realistic effects like screen shaking when something explodes in your face then this is not the game for you.
All the little "game breaking" parts are not exactly game breaking. This is not MW2 whereby you spawn and the game goes at a million miles an hour with every split second reaction counting and before you know it you're dead.

good god, is all this bickering even necessary?

OMG yes

C'mon it's fps wars, at least there some to argue over

oh... i think i'm finally starting to understand the fundamentals of fanboyism

Hehehe

Well I've just had the first playable and enjoyable game with Kalo. However, I am still not sold on this. I get the gritty realism and it has it's place, but there is something about the mechanic of movement and offense I just either don't like or haven't come to terms with yet. And yes I do understand what Chyros means on some points.

Pav3d, on 8 Feb 2010, 14:50, said:

1. Dude, that's flat out ignorant. Saying it's bad because it was in CoD is just wrong. I have to say, I actually really like the idea of a killcam, it can help new and even experienced players a lot, and if you're going to "follow" your killer for four or five seconds anyway, I think a killcam would be better.
2. Not really to be honest. If it's there, it's a very minimal effect, and being a little more obvious would probably be an improvement.
3. The first thing you're saying is an opinion, and you're using that to counter his argument, which was comparing it to other games... so in other words, you really didn't have a point there.
4. Meh, I kinda agree with Pav here, it's not a big deal, though it can be extremely irritating when you're playing as a sniper.

Wizard, on 8 Feb 2010, 23:02, said:

Wizard is my good luck charm. I managed to Lase two Apaches in a round.

Jok3r, on 8 Feb 2010, 23:24, said:

1. Flat our ignorant? Read what I said again. Im not saying its bad because its in CoD, what im saying is is that it doesnt fit with Battlefield games. You shouldnt know where the sniper is at all (Since it can take a while to find a good sniping spot since the maps are huge, and it generally benefits the stealthness of snipers in battlefield, who dont just go running around quick/no scoping people 2 feet away from them in hope of a lucky kill) or who killed you, imo it detracts from the battlefield experience.
2. Its fine, I really dont see why this is such an issue.
3. Please dont talk to me like I have no idea what Im talking about. Im not 5 fucking years old here.

1. That's not at all what it sounded like. The caps lock and half english makes it sound like you're saying it's bad because it's from MW2. And about snipers? The little thing were it hovers over and follows your killer gives away their position just as well as a kill cam would.
2. Fair enough, it's a relatively small point.
3. I'm aware, I was just pointing out that you had no argument whatsoever, just opinion, which you're entitled to.

Jok3r, on 8 Feb 2010, 23:41, said:

1. Im saying that little thing that hovers over is a bad thing, the BC2 version of the kill cam is unnecessary too.

Figured if everyone was gonna go I'd have a go to

Chyros, on 8 Feb 2010, 19:31, said:

So far I can't say the game is fun. I spent a huge amount of time running around following Kalo up a hill that for all intense and purposes I shouldn't have been able to, in order to bypass a bottlenect and flank a point. The fact that I could run up the hill shouldn't have happened. I am all for impassables in maps, but not with glitches. I don't find this fun.

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This I agree with whole heartidly. BF is.... well it's something. If you've played it before and have veterans whatever I suppose you'll like it, but there are plenty of things in this game that would put people off. Namely me from playing religiously like I did with MW2, even though I wasn't a massive fan of CoD4.

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This seriously pissed me off. A stupid thing I know but the more you have to hold a button to use something the less of something else you could be doing. I suppose you'd argue that is more realistic, but gameplay > (you know what goes here).

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Sorry I agree with this as well. It really doesn't stand out enough and Pav3d if I am lucky enough to have killed someone I am normally being blown to shit by someone else at that point and can't make out anything for smoke or multiple red arrows etc

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Again this I agree with. By the time you've pressed it you are normally dancing like a fairy on metamphetamines behind each other in what looks in the 3rd person like a mating dance of the Lesser Spotted Blue Titted Arse Feather bird.

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Annoying but not game breaking for me, I have at least adapted to this so far. Although I rarely get enough shots off before being gang raped that it matters.

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I don't know what language this is, but ADS doesn't seem to do that much for accuracy from where I have been shooting from. And because there are no killcams I have absolutely nothing to compare it with either.

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Yes, as I always get the short end of the stick

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I have two major grips with this game, this is one. I can't see shit 90% of the time. The other is the movement physics and cameras. They just make me want to vomit.

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Again I don't get this but I can never seem to hit what I am aiming at.

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All games should have killcams, period

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This is a nice touch from where I am and does add to the atmosphere, however as I already am not a fan of the physics it actually does make me vomit.

This game is something I want to enjoy but I am having to invest a lot of mental and asophegus restricting muscle energy to even play. I can't work out how to hit something and when I do I usually miss anyway. This annoys the fuck outta me and I only got anywhere by following someone around who knew what they were doing. With MW2 I could pick it up, point and shoot and shout hell yeah inside of 5 minutes. It has it's faults but it's easily the more playable.

Alright, another biggie. Here it goes.

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There has never been a strafe run in the Battlefield series. As well, the crouch hold should not be that big of a deal. Awkward? Yes. Game-changing? No.

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Once again, this is another Battlefield thing. Instead of just knowing instantly, like CoD4/MW2's rather arcade-y experience, you actually have to make sure you got a guy.

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I'll rag on CoD here because the melee in that is practically instant, like you've got the blade already at the guy's face rather than unsheathing it and striking.

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This one I'll give to you, but I have no idea WHY you would have two different functions to up and down.

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No real comment here because I don't have a high-sensitivity mouse.

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Random damage may be lame, but then, if you shot 5 different guys in the same spot in real life, would they all necessarily be in the exact same condition? BF's more towards the center on the scale of realism vs. arcade.

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That's because reloading while sprinting is a feature.

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I personally see no problem with it.

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Heli controls are the same as always, though the sensitivity does leave something to be desired.

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I believe there is an option to make the announcer speak in only English. Otherwise it's unchanged from how it is in the BF series.

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Again, BF weapons have never been hitscan; there has always been drop and always been a certain degree of inaccuracy. If you pick up a gun in real life and aim down the sight, is it always going to hit exactly what you were pointing it at? No. Another case of CoD arcade-ism vs. BF's semi-realism.

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This is one I'll give to you.

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Even in the head? I'm not really sure what you're getting at with this one.

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From my experience, more people prefer to NOT have the killcam. It allows someone to be able to not get discovered the instant they kill anyone stealthily.

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Vehicles are not the only way to win on it, as I've seen infantry attacks work. Vehicles are also not the end-all-be-all of the game. In addition it might be the teams you play with. As for the map, part of the reason people might think it sucks is simply because it's the only one they've played.

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That's a known bug in the beta on the Russian paradrop spawn. Just open your damn parachute. Also, your parachute CAN get caught on things like trees, and even the UAV.

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Um.....so?

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And what would you do if you were hit with an actual bullet? Keep up your aim like nothing happened?

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Again, so? Lots of games have shellshock these days. BF's had it since '42, CoD's had it in every single installment, hell, even Medal of Honor's had it.

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All I can say for that is overzealous autobalance.

As well, I'd like you to reconsider your problems with vehicles since vehicles have been a major part of the games all along.

All games should have kill cams? FUCK no. Also, Wiz. Care to point out how going up a Hill that any sane person could probably climb up himself is a glitch? We weren't glitching out of bounds or anything.

Kalo, on 8 Feb 2010, 21:49, said:

1. Damageviewkick can be maintained without the weapons deviating from the middle of the screen, just like they did in CoD 4. A true deviating damageviewkick makes the game into into a who-sees-who-first instead of who-can-shoot-better and is honestly a bigger flaw in MW2 than lack of dedicated servers and leaning and whatnot put together. The same thing applies here too.

2. Why would I want to reload cancel? Let's see, because an opponent shows himself and I can't defend myself because my character is too limited to be able to grasp I want him to stop reloading? Seriously, you never wanted to reload cancel at all? I don't believe that .

3. It may be best for them, but not for me, and that's enough reason for me to hate those controls.

4. Of all weapons snipers have easily the closest to hitscan weaponry, and besides, you can just as easily not make snipers hitscan but you can make it the rest, for example.

5. It happens, okay, whatever. But if I get two respawn timers at once plus a -10 against something I can't even defend myself against, that's just crap design. Give me one good reason why something I can't counter while I'm not doing anything wrong, costing me experience and double spawn time is a GOOD idea and why it should be in the game .

6. Yup, strafe run has existed in all CoD games and in fact I can't remember any shooter ever which didn't feature it.

7. Shellshock and explosion disorientation and damageviewkick all detract from the actual shooting. It doesn't reward players who are good at aiming, it's just an irritating side effect you can't really evade. You can even get shellshock from simple bullets ffs. All it does is help noobs get kills more easily, because the first shot counts more than the last.

8. If I aim for the head, it'd miss and you know it. The game uses not only projectile bullets but doesn't feature lag compensation as far as I know, you can't control the weapon's idle and while zoomed in the mouse sensitivity goes bananas. The bullet drop makes you kind of guess where you actually hit someone as well, and honestly when I make three headshots in a row I could have sworn I hit them in the stomach or something instead. The game features unnecessary complications for weapons, all based on realism, and sacrifices gameplay for it in my opinion. what works best for a game is rarely that which is most realistic.

9. Yes, I do have it for PC. Yes, I have a mic. Yes, I look forward to a game .

Pav3d, on 8 Feb 2010, 21:50, said:

1. Nope, on the snipers hardly and on launchers not at all. Anyone who has a scope knows you have to bring the thing completely in line with your eye before you see anything through it, and it doesn't show as a fade either. Even a sudden change would be considerably more realistic.

2. I'd like to stress I'm praising the game for its more tactical gameplay and teamwork in which aspect it's obviously superior to MW2. If that's your thing I can see why you like BC2 but not MW2. MW2 was built in such a way that it conveniently disregards everything that hampers the backbone of the shooter gameplay, making it more arcadey and less realistic but a better, more playable shooter in my opinion. BC2 seems hellbent on keeping in as much realism as possible and therefore features things like ADS inaccuracy (which is random and therefore almost unforgiveable by itself IMO), projectile bullets and bullet drop, which interferes too heavily with gameplay for me to call it a real shooter. These variables dominate the game so much that it distracts you from the shooting. It's more of an issue how much you need to miss to land your bullets into someone instead of actually aiming for what you want to hit. Saying that that makes the game balanced is a moot point, I'd like to add, since there is ALWAYS a way to balance around that. That's what variables are for, after all.

3. At low resolution the font size it no bigger than these letters here. And they are displayed in a not particularly visible colour against the background (light cyan on a light blue background) at the bottom of the screen. I have to actively look at the bottom of the screen to see if I killed someone, isn't that enough? And if there's a sound I haven't heard it yet, probably from all the gunfire around (for example, my own, when I kill someone ). I'd take a huge "+50!!!" above that any time of the day. It wouldn't be as bad, mind you, if there was actually a way to predict how many shots it'd take to drop someone, but you can't, because apparently damage is a random variable.

4. Well, perhaps the fact not every split second counts is what it makes such a non-shooter. Almost all original major online shooters required divine reflexes, sharp senses, quick thinking and a steady hand to kill the opposition. Here you just get stunned, can't hear or see a thing because of shell shock, your weapon idles like mad when you get hit, you can't turn fast enough when anything happens near to to you and your weapons don't hit where they say they are going to hit. If one shooter game I've played in the last ten years encouraged spray-and-pray, this is it .


All in all:
Perhaps I'm comparing the game too closely too MW2 since the amount of flaws these games share is staggering - every single gameplay flaw present in MW2 is present in this game as well. However on top of that BC2 has a whole bunch of physics and rules that completely distract you from the actual shooting and I really don't like that. I'd sooner class this as a sim than a shooter. If I wanted realism I'd go play some America's Army title, but that fails as well because the game sacrifices everything that makes a good shooter just to be realistic. The game is fun, true - but not as a shooter, and that's exactly why right now I prefer MW2 over this - because I like shooters.

Fox all we've said in this thread is what we like from our own POV and why so far it's been hard to get into this game. I for one am not saying it has to be this way etc, but as it's not it's harder to appreciate first time off. The cliff thing shouldn't have happened imo. If you are able to walk up something like that then it should at least look different and not like 4 people trying to dry hump it

And kill cams are fine. Especially in BF games. On that map I'd never find the bugger that shot me again, with MW2 it's more of a giveaway as the maps are smaller and it's far easier to find someone. And tbh the kill cam there is actually shows the location after the kill and in 3rd person, how the hell does that not give away their position. A 1st person kill cam of the actual death wouldn't give away the position and the respawn delay only serves to allow your killer to move on. If he's camping he deserves to be found and die anyway.

I'm going to say this in all fairness and without trying to be a dick but : This game is not for you if these features make the game unplayable for someone such as yourself. And no I really haven't wanted to stop a reload, why would I? The general idea is to reload the gun to shoot it again. if I can't do it in time I knife or pull out my Colt 1911 (btw favorite pistol so far). Also, I can definitely say if I shoot someone in the head, I make it happen. You're doing it wrong Chyros .


Addendum : If you can't turn properly you need to turn your sensitivity up . I have also learned to ignore shell shock and use my actual eyes (Despite the fact I need glasses. I really fucking hate not being able to see that well anymore) instead of soley relying on my ears. And if there wasn't BD on Sniper Rifles on shit like that Sniper Spam would be even more ridiculous. Try defending a few times to see what I mean. if you aren't hiding in the Pit or a building you're probably going to get sniper raped.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

If it's been in all Battlefield games, I'd have disliked all Battlefield games. I just don't like it, period.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

Like I said, this is just one of those things that completely distracts from the actual gameplay. I don't like redundant detracting stuff like this.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

I don't want to have to wait a full second before someone dies, especially if I'm in their face. Isn't the whole point of a melee that it's a quick-kill alternative to shooting? I might as well shoot them with the speed at which it melees now.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

It's a tweak which gives you a nice advantage in CoD games, if you know how to use it well.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

v.i.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

It's centered completely on luck, damn luck you can't do a damn thing against. Luck is unfair and gives players an advantage or disadvantage they NEVER deserved, ever.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

Yes, and that's why sprinting should cancel reloading. In BC2 you can run while reloading iirc.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

It's about one-third of the normal human FoV.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

Then they've always sucked absolute donkey balls for me .

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

Like I said, I don't want realism to detract from shooter gameplay. You can literally not trust your weapon to shoot where you aim, or even where it'd land taking flight time into consideration (and considering flight time, in turn, completely went out the door lag came in by, but that's another story).

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

I mean, two sniper hits aren't always fatal right now. Which is retarded IMO.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

The attackers seem to mass-snipe from the cliff instead of going for the objectives, generally speaking. And I can't blame them - you'd just get mauled anyway.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

I don't think you appreciate what massive impact any interference with your FoV and HUD has on most shooter games. Things like this make split-second acting all but impossible, and therefore removes depth from the shooting part of the game.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

Realism <<<<<<< gameplay, period. I could bring a dozen things that aren't realistic in BC2 in but you'd invariably answer them too with "because that would mess up the game". You can have the view kicked without throwing off the weapon's aim, but they didn't.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

CoD only had it in multiplayer very rarely - in fact I don't think CoD 4 had it in multiplayer at all. BC2 gives you shellshock from being wounded by bullets ffs. As soon as you get hit by two peas flying around you can't hear or see a damn thing anymore, removing half the chance you have of a dashing counterkill.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

But why is it even in? You shouldn't be able to even change your team ingame in a game as heavily objective-based as this IMO.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

Well vehicles are one of the things that actually weren't nearly as bad. But don't think that I'm gonna reconsider my problems or change my game prederences suddenly just because of a game like this. I'll like whatever the hell I want to like , not what DICE wants me to like .

Kalo, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:51, said:

If an opponent is five metres away from you and you're reloading with ten bullets left in the mag, you can't knife him or shoot him, you can't do anything. This happens all the time! I can't even control my player, is the point - what's up with that? And yeah, my entire point is that this game is probably not for me, because IMO the game sacrifices too many shooter elements to be a pure shooter game. Which is the kind of game I like, obviously.

Foxhound, on 9 Feb 2010, 2:34, said:

I do have a high sensitivity on, because it's well known that a high-sensitivity mouse is basically mandatory for the higher tiers of play in most shooters. In BC2 I run it at about 0.65 scale on sensitivity, with the most sensitive type of mouse available on the market afaik (about twenty times more sensitive than an optical mouse (which is the common type where you have a red light in the bottom)). The game imposes a maxturnrate for players that are stunned though, much like in CoD except that it now happens all the time.