963 replies to this topic

[BeefJeRKy]

CoD4 was the last truly innovative CoD imo. I doubt I'll be revisiting this series anytime soon. For FPSes, I'll be looking at other titles and not MoH either. Looking forward to Brink currently.

[Stalker]

Chyros, on 2 Sep 2010, 21:38, said:

The CG from MW2 is quite often fully stationary and has an automatic AoE weapon as well. The Spec Ops one wasn't exactly a lightweight piece of hardware . I guess it could be balanced right though. Got a source or vid or something? That would help some.

Not really. That guy was talking about it in one of his vids. Nothing visual though.


also probably interesting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc...player_embedded

Info:

-face paint (seriously, who cares?)
-creating decals for guns
-classified assault rifle is most likely the G11 (there is a challange for it)
-MP5K's sound still sucks.
-partly different attachments for individual assault rifles (M14 has grip, famas has dual mag)
-Valkyrie rocket is a horizontal predator
-Mortar team has 3 different impact locations
-Gunship (11 killstreak) is most likely an controllable (and flyable?) attack helicopter armed with missiles and a minigun (unless that's chopper gunner and that guy was talking bs)

[Chyros]

Also, apparently Last Stand will feature revival.

That's it.

[BeefJeRKy]

Chyros, on 2 Sep 2010, 23:31, said:

Also, apparently Last Stand will feature revival.

That's it.

All we need now is a zombie player model

[Shirou]

Chyros, on 2 Sep 2010, 21:38, said:

Well, Steam is incredibly unreliable and has a tendency to fail, drop out and kick everyone from all games - it in fact does this regularly as well with scheduled updates roughly every week. Having this happen so often right in the middle of a game tends to anger me. Also, you can't uncouple a game from Steam to make it actually not paint posters all over town that you're playing game X for example.

Never ever happened to me. Either I must be playing at lucky times or you are at the unlucky times.

I do think Steam community needs to gain some more user options instead of showing the world everything you do online. I mean I don't care about it all but in fact I know lots of people will.

Oh hey and with MW2 at least EVERYONE gets dropped out at a Steam update. Surely doesn't help raising this game above its predecessor...

On the mp5. Well I don't get the surprise here as for me the damn thing was a toy in MW2 to begin with...

Edited by Shirou, 02 September 2010 - 20:38.

[Stalker]

Quote

Well, Steam is incredibly unreliable and has a tendency to fail, drop out and kick everyone from all games - it in fact does this regularly as well with scheduled updates roughly every week. Having this happen so often right in the middle of a game tends to anger me. Also, you can't uncouple a game from Steam to make it actually not paint posters all over town that you're playing game X for example.

Quote

Never ever happened to me. Either I must be playing at lucky times or you are at the unlucky times.

^ this ^

I never had any similar problems with Steam. Or do you mean MW2's regular gamelobbyclosing, outoflobbykicking and nohostfinding ? That would be more of an IWnet problem.

[Shirou]

Well yeah I heard more complaints about IWnet than about Steam. Anyway a system that has you go through Steam first and then to an even more unreliable system called IWnet in order to play online, that's asking for trouble really.

Anyway, both MoH and this look like how Chyros nicely worded it: Same shit, different day. Personally, while still getting my frags at Bad Company 2, I am waiting for Crysis 2 and Brink multiplayer. Perhaps its been a bit too much modern warfare lately....

That may on the other hand be just the problem. CoD4 could be so good because the genre hadn't been properly touched since battlefield 2 (and even that was different gameplay). Now after CoD4 Activision got taken over by a money mad clown and EA's trying to tag along. The developers hardly have time to make their game let alone to stuff it up into a new standard.

I do though think that some criticism is a bit too harsh. I mean, calling everything below par? What exactly is your ''par'' then. What game is out there that sets the ''par'' that you want to see? As far as I can see, if you showed me a video of that and told me it was MW2 I would have believed you. MW2 is this games standard so yeah, fail.

Edited by Shirou, 02 September 2010 - 21:03.

[Chyros]

Stalker, on 2 Sep 2010, 22:45, said:

Quote

Well, Steam is incredibly unreliable and has a tendency to fail, drop out and kick everyone from all games - it in fact does this regularly as well with scheduled updates roughly every week. Having this happen so often right in the middle of a game tends to anger me. Also, you can't uncouple a game from Steam to make it actually not paint posters all over town that you're playing game X for example.

Quote

Never ever happened to me. Either I must be playing at lucky times or you are at the unlucky times.

^ this ^

I never had any similar problems with Steam. Or do you mean MW2's regular gamelobbyclosing, outoflobbykicking and nohostfinding ? That would be more of an IWnet problem.

No. I mean where it pulls you right out of a game and says "Steam is down for conducting routine maintenance". In L4D it used to kill off everyone's game if it was updating, too. It also gives me a "no connection to Steam could be made" or "Steam connection lost" and it refuses to reconnect me sometimes. All in all I get disconnected from Steam roughly once or twice per day.

Shirou, on 2 Sep 2010, 22:53, said:

Well yeah I heard more complaints about IWnet than about Steam. Anyway a system that has you go through Steam first and then to an even more unreliable system called IWnet in order to play online, that's asking for trouble really.

IWNet is another layer in the cake built of shit, for sure.

Quote

That may on the other hand be just the problem. CoD4 could be so good because the genre hadn't been properly touched since battlefield 2 (and even that was different gameplay). Now after CoD4 Activision got taken over by a money mad clown and EA's trying to tag along. The developers hardly have time to make their game let alone to stuff it up into a new standard.

I think it's mostly two factors: the developers hadn't yet realised how much they could get away with, and the game wasn't catered for noobs as much as many later games. That and the game mechanics are very foolproof and enjoyable for everyone, just plain no-nonsense gunplay without stuff that only gets in your way.

Quote

I do though think that some criticism is a bit too harsh. I mean, calling everything below par? What exactly is your ''par'' then. What game is out there that sets the ''par'' that you want to see? As far as I can see, if you showed me a video of that and told me it was MW2 I would have believed you. MW2 is this games standard so yeah, fail.

Exactly. I call MW2 "par". And that's exactly what it is worse in every way in, as far as I can see so far.

[deltaepsilon]

Chyros, on 3 Sep 2010, 8:22, said:

Stalker, on 2 Sep 2010, 22:45, said:

Quote

Well, Steam is incredibly unreliable and has a tendency to fail, drop out and kick everyone from all games - it in fact does this regularly as well with scheduled updates roughly every week. Having this happen so often right in the middle of a game tends to anger me. Also, you can't uncouple a game from Steam to make it actually not paint posters all over town that you're playing game X for example.

Quote

Never ever happened to me. Either I must be playing at lucky times or you are at the unlucky times.

^ this ^

I never had any similar problems with Steam. Or do you mean MW2's regular gamelobbyclosing, outoflobbykicking and nohostfinding ? That would be more of an IWnet problem.

No. I mean where it pulls you right out of a game and says "Steam is down for conducting routine maintenance". In L4D it used to kill off everyone's game if it was updating, too. It also gives me a "no connection to Steam could be made" or "Steam connection lost" and it refuses to reconnect me sometimes. All in all I get disconnected from Steam roughly once or twice per day.

Steam is rarely problematic in my experience, and I've certainly had none of those issues you've mentioned. I've gotten used to it since I bought TF2 back in 2008. Sure, I'd appreciate the good old days when games were standalone and you didn't need some extra application just to play it, but Steam provides a good number of nifty features that makes using it worthwhile.

Also, you tend to get ridiculous bargains from time to time on the Steam store.

[Chyros]

deltaepsilon, on 3 Sep 2010, 9:04, said:

Also, you tend to get ridiculous bargains from time to time on the Steam store.

But when I don't, I pay a LOT extra because to Steam, 1$ = 1 euro, which is super lame and weak and totally not cool.

[Wizard]

Despite my tendancy to agree with Chyros on most things in this and other CoD topics, I can't say I share the dissatisfaction with Steam that he does. Whilst I don't like the broadcast to the world of everything I do on Steam, I rarely have connection issues and drops from the Steam servers are less frequent these days (although I do know of what he speaks as in the time we've played MW2 together it used to happen quite a bit).

I would point out that, whilst I am very much pointing towards the negative end of the opinion-o-meter with this game (due to, imo, poor models, animations, lack of recoil/idle, terrible sounds etc and attack dogs (wtf)), the Wager gamemode and the credit system appear quite well thought out and avoid the annoying grinding that you do have to do in MW2 in order to unlock items. The credit system will at least prevent the "Soz for the tubing, want the shotty attachment" lies we've all seen. And the Wager mirror matches will at least put people on a level playing field for a bloody change.

PS: why can't they show PC footage? I was under the impression that Trey. we're dedicated to providing a decent PC experience/development?

Edited by Wizard, 03 September 2010 - 08:05.

[Stalker]

Chyros, on 3 Sep 2010, 9:26, said:

deltaepsilon, on 3 Sep 2010, 9:04, said:

Also, you tend to get ridiculous bargains from time to time on the Steam store.

But when I don't, I pay a LOT extra because to Steam, 1$ = 1 euro, which is super lame and weak and totally not cool.

Yeah, that sucks. But most games are still cheaper than in stores here.

Personally I only bought games you couldn't get in stores (DoD:S and Gmod). My Dad uses it regulary to buy (mostly cheap) games.

I'm also using steam since it's release with Half Life 2 and I only get those connection problems 1-2 times a year. Steam has improved a lot in the last years.

Back to Topic:

The problem I see with the CoD series (or Multiplayer - FPS in general) is that the expectations are way too high imho.

CoD4 was a huge success. It was the best FPS in years. It's multiplayer was revolutionary (at least for me xD) but still simple:

Basic Deathmatch and Default objective gamemodes. BUT it had Killstreaks, Perks and Attachments. This was something new. (not entirely new, but IIRC no High Budget game had it before)

Now WaW tried to be successful by taking the awesome CoD4 gameplay into WW2 (basically a total conversion). They also added Tanks but imho they just fail.

Both games still tried to stay realistic and conventional.

Now here comes MW2:

Biggest hype in history, huge expectations. CoD4's features had to be implemented of course, but that was already FPS-standard so there were no new and revolutionary features to add. Also if they would have changed the gameplay, people would have complained because it wasn't like CoD4.

So they added bling bling. Stupid gimmicks and tacticool stuff that turn a realistic shooter into ... something different. The good old shooter gameplay got partly replaced by gamebreaking/changing stuff like easier grenade launcher, tactical insertions, heartbeat sensors, riddicolous overpowered killstreaks.

Now most likely BO will be another step in that direction combined with Treyarchs overall lower quality.

BUT, I will most likely still buy this game. Since it is/will be a good game after all (MW2 was as well) and there is no other (FPS) game on the horizon that I would rather buy. Also I am lucky that I can afford buying 3-5 games a year.

[deltaepsilon]

Now this is pretty original.

[Shirou]

Call of Shit: Black ops.

/tab.

[TehKiller]

Not getting this one out of the principle of Steamworks. Steam is a too unstable platform for me to even consider playing this. VAC is major fail too...id rather play on a CoD2 without any PB on it than a server with VAC (as id prolly encounter less hackers).

Dont bitch to me because I wont get it because of Steam as that was just the last stroke (the other reasons are retardedly obvious).

Also Steam even fails at these "uber bargains"...on average in Europe you will save from 20% up to 70% just by buying in retail (UK doesnt count on this one...as a matter of fact if I would buy anything off of Steam I'd prolly ask some brit to buy it for me and then send him the money since it costs me cheaper)

[Chyros]

[quote name='Wizard' post='803105' date='3 Sep 2010, 10:04']I would point out that, whilst I am very much pointing towards the negative end of the opinion-o-meter with this game (due to, imo, poor models, animations, lack of recoil/idle, terrible sounds etc and attack dogs (wtf)), the Wager gamemode and the credit system appear quite well thought out and avoid the annoying grinding that you do have to do in MW2 in order to unlock items. The credit system will at least prevent the "Soz for the tubing, want the shotty attachment" lies we've all seen. And the Wager mirror matches will at least put people on a level playing field for a bloody change.[/quote]I really agree here. The Wager gamemode circumvents many problems I've seen so far, and it looks quite enjoyable actually (it makes sense therefore that Treyarch were not the ones behind this game mode). Apparently Gun Game also exists for MW2 as a mod and I'm half tempted to actually try that too. If I get the game, I most likely will get it purely for the Wager mode, since I'm almost 100% sure everything else will suck balls maximally.


[quote]PS: why can't they show PC footage? I was under the impression that Trey. we're dedicated to providing a decent PC experience/development?[/quote]No.


[quote name='Stalker' post='803111' date='3 Sep 2010, 10:16']The problem I see with the CoD series (or Multiplayer - FPS in general) is that the expectations are way too high imho.[/quote]Of course they are, because the previous games like CoD 4 and MW2 are way too good. If you want people to buy a new game, it needs to bring something good to the table. That's why I'm so critical of shooter games - I have a bunch that I know are very very good and if something doesn't trump it, I don't seen why I shouldn't just fall back to those.


[quote]So they added bling bling. Stupid gimmicks and tacticool stuff that turn a realistic shooter into ... something different. The good old shooter gameplay got partly replaced by gamebreaking/changing stuff like easier grenade launcher, tactical insertions, heartbeat sensors, riddicolous overpowered killstreaks.[/quote]The heartbeat sensors and killstreaks are really no overpowered, by the way. The addition of stuff like this is exactly what puts MW2 above CoD 4 IMO.


[quote]BUT, I will most likely still buy this game. [...] and there is no other (FPS) game on the horizon that I would rather buy.[/quote]Well, this is another reason for me as well. In the genre of good twitch shooters there has been nothing even remotely decent since MW2 and there probably won't be for a considerable amount of time.


[quote name='deltaepsilon' post='803127' date='3 Sep 2010, 10:54']

Now this is pretty original.[/quote]

[Wanderer]

Steam is often more expensive than buying from normal stores but sometimes you can get games for 50% or even 70% less than you can get from stores around here (Finland)...

but back to the topic:

I know that I will not be getting this. Though the wager modes sound fun and I like the customizing options, the general look and sound of the game is awful and it just seems to be more of the same. I like MW2 but the more you play it, the more it's faults become apparent. I have high hopes for the next game by Splash damage (makers of ET and ETQW) called Brink. It looks like alot of fun


and also the youtube-vid was just hilarious

Edited by Wanderer, 03 September 2010 - 10:28.

[Kaido]

Guns guns guns

[Stinger]

Here's a video that shows the flamethrower attachment in action - this looks better than I'd anticipated:

http://g4tv.com/videos/48466/Call-of-Duty-...ltiplayer-Maps/

Roast n00b.

In this you will also see that enemy spy planes (BO's UAV equivalent) can be shot down as there is a missile launch at 03:03, which is good news.

Edit: It looks like the spawn system is going to be epic fail again. At 02:47 you can see that the corner is clear and then at 02:51 Harry Houdini magically appears and kills the guy.

Edited by Stinger, 03 September 2010 - 13:42.

[Wanderer]

The spawning has been a fail forever... Same crap was in CoD4. They'll never get rid of it -.-

[Chyros]

Stinger, on 3 Sep 2010, 15:29, said:

Here's a video that shows the flamethrower attachment in action - this looks better than I'd anticipated:

http://g4tv.com/videos/48466/Call-of-Duty-...ltiplayer-Maps/

The flamethrower looks more like a strontium nitrate flare . And it seems to work like the WaW flamethrower; just a hitscan every 0,X seconds.

You can see the recoil easier here. The AUG's first burst shows absolutely minute amounts of recoil, and every other weapon (and the AUG at all other moments) are 100% steady and do not show recoil of any kind at all.

Also, the G11 has the fake FAMAS sight TOO?!?! Oo

EDIT: in fact, most weapons don't even feature buck at all >.> . How could it get more noobish than this?

EDIT2: in fact in fact, the weapons don't even have BACKWARD recoil. They just sit completely still while you fire.

Edited by Chyros, 03 September 2010 - 15:22.

[Umbrella Secrets]

Wanderer, on 3 Sep 2010, 9:42, said:

The spawning has been a fail forever... Same crap was in CoD4. They'll never get rid of it -.-

Yeah when I make maps I always have trouble with the spawns. No matter where you put them, there all bad.

[Shirou]

Maybe thats because CoD maps are mostly all urban and don't have any soft borders (or in other words, very broad map sides with trees and such where not many players get to).

Battlefield BC2 does have these and other 'dead ends' which generally makes for nicer spawning.

[Chyros]

Shirou, on 3 Sep 2010, 19:09, said:

Maybe thats because CoD maps are mostly all urban and don't have any soft borders (or in other words, very broad map sides with trees and such where not many players get to).

That CoD spawning has been terrible since the beginning is of course beyond any debate, but I think it's mostly because the maps are all relatively small, and because of the spawn logic. Both the CoD 4/MW2 and WaW/(BO?) logics were incredibly stupid in practice (only good on paper).

[Stalker]

New probably interesting video:

http://g4tv.com/videos/48464/Call-of-Duty-...ry-/?quality=hd

info you can get:

-Custom decals for your guns are useless because neither you nor your enemy will actually see them.
-Explanation of (nearly) all killstreaks

And I laughed really hard when that guy described the Tomahawk as an "all new" feature.